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Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

sticerd.lse.ac.uk

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Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#271

Post by jlokier »

BluePen7 wrote: post #211
DubiousPusher wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when I was broke I had a fair amount of free time How did you manage this? I was working my ass off just to keep the bills paid and doing chores to avoid costly services like dining out and maintenance.

Not who you asked, but without extra means you end up with free time any time you're not working. You can't afford to do anything. If you don't have a job where you can simply take on more hours, but it's also not predictable enough that you can get a second job, you just end up with a lot of useless free time on short notice. Can't afford hobbies, trips, no significant other (being poor doesn't help your dating life…

> what else is there to do?

If things are tight enough, you spend all that useless "free time" hunting for more work. You feel you can't afford to just enjoy the time.

More gigs. More waiting for an Uber request. More time polishing your resume, or your profile on Fiverr. Or improving your "Github is the new resume" look.

Then it's not really free time. It's a job, but you're not paid every hour you're working on it.

It can even resemble socialising, because in some lines of work you have to keep socialising for people to think of you when they have a gig.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#272

Post by jlokier »

ultrarunner wrote: post #151
benibela wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is still cheaper than paying rent for 30 years

In our area average rent has now overtaken our mortgage payment. So glad we got off that treadmill.

It's cyclic.

Where I live, when I was too young to buy, mortgage was cheaper.

When I was old enough to buy, rent was cheaper and prices had already risen enormously, so I stuck with rent, and hoped prices would stabilise or fall. In retrospect this was a mistake, as prices continued to rise.

Now mortgages are cheaper than rent again.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#273

Post by jlokier »

twblalock wrote: post #156
rayiner wrote: post #88

This is why Booker/West-style baby bonds could have a significant chance to alleviate structural poverty. Beyond a certain threshold (and I think we’re past that in the US) equality of opportunity (better education, etc.) won’t make up for starting out poor. What people need is seed capital. For a fraction of the cost of universal healthcare, we could endow each child born in the US with a $250,000 trust fund at birt…

I'd bet a significant number of people, upon turning 18, would learn that their trust fund had been emptied out by their parents.

Indeed.

Or to workaround regulations designed to prevent that emptying, find they are indebted, or will shortly be, to an amount equal to their trust fund.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#274

Post by bmmayer1 »

ellis-bell wrote: post #181
bmmayer1 wrote: post #174

Here's a better question: how do people become rich? Being poor is table stakes for being a human animal. The miracle of modern society is that billions of people aren't poor (as high as 90% according to Hans Rosling[1]). How did we make that happen? How do we make it happen for everyone? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/distribution-of-populatio...

correct, 90% of people make more than $1.90 ppp according to the data. but only 35% make more than $10 a day. the poverty line is defined generously at ~$2 / day by most oecd countries, but making above the poverty line does not make you not poor. all of that said, the field of development economics has been very rich in research these days, particular from the likes of duflo and banerjee

The chart measurement is in constant PPP dollars and clearly shows a downtrend in all poverty worldwide over time. Obviously the line of what constitutes "poor" is debatable, but what's far more interesting is the continuing growth in people who are rich.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#275

Post by missedthecue »

quercusgrisea wrote: post #266
missedthecue wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's near the median. Plenty of corruption, but they are not a command economy in any sense.

You think that half of governments have more control over their economy than China? You keep bringing up China not being a command economy today. I never said they were, just that they exercise relatively more control over their economy than other states. In case you don't know, in addition to the portions of the Chinese economy directly owned by state-owned enterprises, the Chinese government exercises a large amoun…

I said food distribution is better in decentralized systems than in command economies. You brought in china as a counterexample, probably because you are unaware that they haven't had a command economy in almost half a century

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#276

Post by [deleted] »

jfrunyon wrote: post #143

Easy answer: because expenses are higher for poor people. Instead of buying a home, the lower class rent their whole life. Instead of their daddy giving them a home, the middle class pay interest on a mortgage most of their life. Instead of buying a 20-pack of $necessary_product that costs $20 and will last for months, the lower class buy a 2-pack that costs $5 and lasts a couple weeks because they need the $15 to pa…

[deleted]

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#277

Post by rorykoehler »

jcun4128 wrote: post #106
rorykoehler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT Graeme Obree biked 60 miles round trip for work. Due to the fitness gained he was able to come out of nowhere to break the hour record in cycling on a bike he built himself out of miscellaneous parts from things like washing machines.

I did read this when it was first posted, I've been working on/off since then ha(wrecked sleep pattern). Was trying not to flood/chain responses. There are many examples of people overcoming crazy challenges, makes for a nice story but also having a regular/"painless" life is also nice. I did not enjoy riding the Walmart bike that far/many hours. It was nice though the nature aspect. I still think I am being lazy, no…

It was off topic and in no way was I suggesting you should try keep riding. I’ve done only 30km round trip on a good bike and it was exhausting having to do it even though I would happily do it in my free time.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#278

Post by omilu »

zouhair wrote: post #184
redorb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great definition of what I consider to be the 'poor tax'.. Not to mention if they ever get un-poor they don't have the knowledge to 'build wealth' until they start slowly learning it or from a mentor. We would better off teaching 'home finances, interest and banking' classes instead of Algebra 3 or geometry 2 (for 99% of people)

That's the only way to have billionaires. They have to take the money where it is, mostly in poor people's pockets.

Presumably they make things of value to get rich, which is why we enjoy the standard of living we all do.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#279

Post by omilu »

petra wrote: post #173
SilasX wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

In Israel in the 60-80's the state created "rent to own" housing projects for poor people. It worked pretty well.

Sounds like the same thing as a mortgage.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#280

Post by quercusgrisea »

missedthecue wrote: post #275
quercusgrisea wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that half of governments have more control over their economy than China? You keep bringing up China not being a command economy today. I never said they were, just that they exercise relatively more control over their economy than other states. In case you don't know, in addition to the portions of the Chinese economy directly owned by state-owned enterprises, the Chinese government exercises a large amoun…

I said food distribution is better in decentralized systems than in command economies. You brought in china as a counterexample, probably because you are unaware that they haven't had a command economy in almost half a century

What I disagreed with was when you said centralized control is always worse, not a command economy. I asked for any evidence you have for that claim and you don't seem to have any.

I'm aware of the market reforms in China over the last half century. They've moved the country closer to something like capitalism, but it's still incredibly far from anything in the West.

You seem to be unaware that ~30% of the Chinese economy is owned by state owned enterprises, and China in general, or you wouldn't say something as incorrect as "Compared to other countries, China is around the median in terms of how much control the government has over their economy."

But again, you're dodging the question of why you believe, in the US, widespread hunger is an unfortunate necessity, but in communist countries, it was the result of the economic structure. I'd encourage you to consider why you believe that, and whether it's reasonable.

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