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Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

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131–135 of 135 posts

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all (those of us over 35) assumed that as they industrialised, they would gradually become democratic (in the sense of elections but also of human rights and rule of law). I think this was more like a willful delusion on the part of the supporters of such a theory. Either knowingly--so they exploit China's labor force and resources--or unknowingly--because they'd drank the cool aid offered by those trying to pro…

I actually disagree about South Africa. I think the regime itself there would have been toppled eventually but they made an active choice to go peacefully rather than for it to turn into a bloodbath 20 years later. I think this is a very interesting example because most regimes fail at that sort of pragmatism. But that's an aside, we will never know and it's just my opinion! :) Initially we got into bed with China (I…

> I am 36, quite old really but I won't be dead before most of the shit has hit the fan. Yet everyone both individually and nationally are basically ignoring the oncoming train to pickup pennies from the tracks...

This is my general feeling as well (at age 35). I agree on things like climate change as well, but I think even more concrete examples abound. Most of the diplomatic world has simply chosen to ignore the fact that China and Taiwan are two separate countries. The fact that we ignore the decades of threats of invasions coming from China concurrently with China's build up of the capabilities to actually attempt that invasion is totally unacceptable. And we do it so we can exploit cheap Chinese labor and resources. I find it morally despicable and extremely short-sited. If China ever puts its money where its mouth is, all I can hope is that the rest of the world doesn't pretend to be shocked and surprised.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly- best case scenerio as measured by reduction of humor life loss, a great urban flight similar to what happened to Detroit is the best option. Exhile By doing so, the value of hk is lost (economic powerhouse loss and brain drain) And the hk people can retain their freedom. Along that train of thought, the UK offer for naturalization makes sense, and the US would greatly benefit from such a process.

Well, the US isn't interested in taking anyone from anywhere, so that's kinda definitely not going to happen. It's much more likely they'll end up in the other four of the Five Eyes (The UK, CA, AU and NZ in rough order of how many people will land in each).

The US brings in plenty of refugees.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly- best case scenerio as measured by reduction of humor life loss, a great urban flight similar to what happened to Detroit is the best option. Exhile By doing so, the value of hk is lost (economic powerhouse loss and brain drain) And the hk people can retain their freedom. Along that train of thought, the UK offer for naturalization makes sense, and the US would greatly benefit from such a process.

Well, the US isn't interested in taking anyone from anywhere, so that's kinda definitely not going to happen. It's much more likely they'll end up in the other four of the Five Eyes (The UK, CA, AU and NZ in rough order of how many people will land in each).

British parliament was recently discussing a plan to allow HKers to come to UK and transition into citizens. It had something like 70% agreement in the house, so I would say it has a high chance to become reality.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#134
post #115
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, HK independence is certainly not something that would happen SOON. But for decades, nobody thought the British Empire would give up India. After decades of protest and resistance, and shifting political landscapes, they finally did. HK protesters are likely hoping for something similar. It's a long shot, but if they stick with the resistance for long enough (like, literally decades most likely), there may final…

"Likely hoping for something similar"? Is this just naivete? As many other comments here point out, there are zero sources that suggest anything close to a majority of HK protesters want independence, let alone HKers overall.

There are plenty of HKers who want independence, though from polls I’ve seen it does seem to be a minority, more like 20% of HKers than 50%. Higher among protestors I’m sure.

One of the core demands of the protestors is sort-of “independence light”, though. They’re asking for their leaders, including the Chief Executive, to be democratically elected by HKers, without interference from China.

Regardless, the question I was responding to said nothing about a majority of HKers. It was just saying, for those who do want independence, how do they see it happening? And I was speculating that they could be looking to wage a long term battle of public opinion/annoyance, where China might eventually give up, vs. any sort of military conflict.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#135
post #88
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been plenty of successful, peaceful-ish secessions in history. Off the top of my head, the British Empire mostly dissolved semi-peacefully, which was basically a tonne of secessions. Norway essentially seceded from Sweden. Russia didn’t fight TOO hard against the fall of the USSR. You could argue Brexit is a secession of sorts. I’m sure there are more. Not that there wasn’t plenty of protest, struggle and…

I'm not sure if you've seen a map of the region? I don't understand how you can have an understanding of the geography and claim HK independence is feasible. Even in this impossible scenario, economically it would be ruined beyond repair.

I’m not saying it’s LIKELY, or at all feasible in the short term. Just that, for those HKers who do want independence, they’re probably not envisioning gaining independence through military conflict, but more by shifting public opinion and causing annoyance/costs over a very long term, to the point where China eventually gives up.

It’s a long shot, but I imagine this is a more common dream among HKers who want independence than winning it in a war. Obviously they’ll never match China’s might.

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