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When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

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Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#551

Post by nyuszika7h »

stordoff wrote: post #344
p49k wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does not appear to have its customers agree to that Actually, with an EU iTunes account, you have an additional popup dialog you have to agree to with every in-app purchase where you have to agree that it does not qualify for the exemption.

FWIW, I don't recall ever seeing this in the UK - I've just tried an in-app purchase, and it just gives the "Double-Click to Pay" FaceID screen (which lists description, account, and price, but no information about refunds/exemptions).

The popup will appear after approving the Face ID prompt IIRC, as an additional confirmation before finalizing the transaction, but as I said it only starts appearing if Apple detects refund abuse and flags your account.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#552

Post by nyuszika7h »

avianlyric wrote: post #223
wlesieutre wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple explicitly does not claim that exemption, the 14 day no-questions-asked refund period is called out in their terms and conditions. > Right of cancellation: If you choose to cancel your order, you may do so within 14 days of when you received your receipt, without giving any reason

Apple will start applying that exemption if you abuse their refund process. One or two refunds in a short period is usually enough to trigger it, and it disappears again after some “good behaviour”.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're completely right. If your account is flagged, they will show an additional popup like this: https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/01/b7lgr...

It seems pretty random when it's applied though. Some got it after just one refund, meanwhile I've had multiple refunds, and I got that popup once for a $1 purchase but then never again and I was able to request a refund again.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#553

Post by im3w1l »

Spivak wrote: post #514
im3w1l wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of apps are malware. In both Apple's and Google's app stores. It's gotten to the point that apps are assumed to harvest all information they have access to, store it permanently and sell it to anyone who asks.

If you define malware so broad that every app meets your definition then the term kinda loses its punch.

It's the software ecosystem that has changed, not the definition. Spyware was always included. You can check the history of wikipedia article on malware if you don't believe me.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#554

Post by oarsinsync »

tekknik wrote: post #545
Vervious wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misinformation really does spread like wildfire. Even with the number of naysayers on Hacker News we still seemed to have had a lapse in critical thinking. I've been wanting to get into research on the study of the spread of tweets like this. Anyone have pointers for reading material?

We? No the standard Apple haters did what they do and rage as soon as you hear the word Apple but this is not the entirety of HN acting this way.

“Apple haters”, or Apple customers who have blown tens of thousands on Apple equipment over the years and have noticed their (relatively) recent focus towards maximising their revenue instead of being focused on producing good products.

I continue to use Apple products every day as my daily drivers, and can’t see that changing. Im writing this from my iPad Pro. I’m probably buying 2 new iPhones this year despite them all being too big. I haven’t bought a new MBP in a while as my 2015s meet my current needs better than the new products do.

I found the original tweet totally credible.

I feel more like an “Apple sucker” than an “Apple hater”.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#555

Post by FabHK »

hn_check wrote: post #385

This isn't correct at all. This is a serious misunderstanding by someone in a pretty incredible way. Literally a single person claiming this and _multiple_ people refuting it from their own experience. Yet it's top of HN. Amazing. A lesson to never, ever trust anything here because the masses clicked an arrow.

> A lesson to never, ever trust anything here

FWIW, it's been corrected in less than 18 hours.

Conclusion: You can continue to blindly trust everything here (provided you check a day later)

;-)

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#556

Post by pc86 »

smarnach wrote: post #410
hn_check wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"which I think adds weight to the argument that is unfair behaviour by Apple" Apple takes back from the developer exactly what they gave the developer. This has been verified by a number of people, and this submission is just farcically wrong. How is this nonsense front page on HN? Is this community this clueless?

Do you have any sources for your claim? The original claim - i.e. developers lost money for each refund - is backed not only by the original post, but also by several other sources linked in the comments.

This aged poorly.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#557

Post by me_me_me »

Vervious wrote: post #520
elliottkember wrote: post #512

I was mistaken in my original (now deleted) tweet and have been corrected by a few people Apple does not keep the 30% commission on a refund the refund happens as you’d expect. I don’t know where I got the idea that it worked the way I thought it did This was a follow-up by the tweet's author. https://twitter.com/twolivesleft/status/1288625617873694721?...

Misinformation really does spread like wildfire. Even with the number of naysayers on Hacker News we still seemed to have had a lapse in critical thinking. I've been wanting to get into research on the study of the spread of tweets like this. Anyone have pointers for reading material?

CPC Gray had a video on why rage/anger related materials spread around internet.

TDLR: Materials that cause anger/ rage make people want to reshare it at higher rate (I want to do something) vs positive materials that make you feel good.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#558

Post by [deleted] »

rattray wrote: post #540
xvector wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is caustic but not wrong. If anything, this story should be taken down. It’s factually incorrect and even the tweet in the link has been deleted.

Calling people idiots without citing sources is really unproductive. If you're right, cite sources, so folks can be educated. Trusting a random hn user who doesn't back up their claims is something even @hn_check would scoff at.

[deleted]

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#559

Post by sbarre »

Spivak wrote: post #381
sbarre wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a valid comparison, there is no referral or commission happening here. Compare it more to sales tax, which is a much closer comparison because it is required as part of the transaction in a monopoly ecosystem (much like a sales tax is in a country). If a vendor adds tax to a price, and then charges the customer, and the customer gets a refund, the customer get the sales tax back, but the vendor then doesn…

I mean would it feel better if you got paid $10 but then Apple immediately billed you $3 for marketing and sales services? Because that’s basically Apple’s whole thing. If you want you can just ignore their existence. You can run a very successful business on the web, Android, Windows. But getting your app on iOS and in front of their customer base is really valuable. Better than any billboard or FB ad. They know tha…

That's just changing the subject.

We were talking about selling in the iOS ecosystem, and the mechanics of that process.

No one said there weren't other options, and "take your ball and go home" is obviously always an option but that's not what was being discussed.

(Note that it turns out that Apple does not keep their 30% when it refunds an app, so the original point wasn't valid).

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#560

Post by quelltext »

fma wrote: post #485
chadlavi wrote: post #102

Payment processors generally don't refund fees on payments when the payments are refunded, this isn't new. It's remarkable mainly because (a) it's 30%, not 3% and (b) the App store doesn't position itself as a payments processor the way Stripe does, so it sounds really weird that they would act like one. If the app store took a 3% chunk and never refunded it regardless of the ongoing status of the transaction, that w…

Small business owner here...I use Wave for accounting. They absolutely do refund the fee. Shame on the processors who don't refund it, and shame on those who hasn't been doing that since the beginning (Strip, Paypal...) because they are knowingly sticking it to small business owners. I've used Wave for 4.5+ years and this is how I've known it. "Regardless of the type of payment you received, the full amount that the…

> Regardless of the type of payment you received, the full amount that the client paid will be refunded to the client by clicking on the refund button at the bottom right-hand corner of the transaction details.

That doesn't say anything about what the merchant gets charged. Stripe and PayPal also send the full amount to the card holder, so that blurb would apply to them too. The question is whether the merchant ends up with zero or minus the original processing fees after the refund.

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