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Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

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Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#231
post #102

Bezos cannot guarantee that employees may have access 3rdparty sales data. Can any big retail like Walmart, Costco, Safeway, etc. can guarantee that no employee ever looked at 3rdparty sales data ? If Walmart sees a cheap item flying off the shelves, and thinks that it can make a cheap copy of it, then Walmart would do it. Isn't how store brand work ? and they often use a white label producer anyway (i.e. same factor…

Isn't this straight forward?

If the employees responsible for product development for Amazon brands have credentials to access 3rd party data, then assume they used it.

Doesn't matter if only one used it, or all of them - they had access to it, all the rest is semantics/claims/smoke&mirrors.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#232

"Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said Wednesday he can't guarantee employees have never used sales data from individual third-party sellers to develop the company's own products" There's no way he could make that guarantee. How can you prove a negative? The best Amazon can do is have policies, logs and access controls and punish employees if they break those policies. And Bezos committed to doing that.

> There's no way he could make that guarantee.

But you can put various things in place. E.g. limited access, (external) audits, etc. Such things are entirely standard and expected for any big company.

Saying "cannot guarantee" is too much nitpicking. Such needs (limit the access, etc) happens all the time. Say you want to takeover another (competitor) company. During that process you'll need to figure out a lot of information. However, you're competitors and you aren't allowed to do that. The common solution is to "ring fence" that team. Such "ring fencing" is a normal occurrence.

Similarly, you can also educate what is allowed and what not on a regular basis.

The company I work for has annual repeating courses for various basis things. Meaning, GDPR, competition law, fraud, etc. They're highly annoying and enough people try to ignore the course and go straight to the questions. It'll be difficult to pass if you didn't do it. Not doing those course will get you an email

After doing all that you'll still have enough cases where people were found to have committed fraud, etc. But that's entirely different than 'cannot guarantee'.

I know you went into things I said above. However, immediately saying "cannot guarantee" is too much of a technical answer. Yeah, there might be cases. But your whole response is a lot of proactive things. You also need to check after the fact, plus do more than just a policy. There is more than enough possible. Further, the question that was asked is entirely normal.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of many ex amazon employee anecdotes where people were “taken in the night” (didn’t have a job in the morning), and had their credentials and their teams credentials rotated due to a customer or seller data access overstep. As with most conspiracies the facts don’t add up super well in this case for Amazon - their whole company is based on trust. The cost of losing it would be huge, so they’d be super driven t…

“ their whole company is based on trust. The cost of losing it would be huge, so they’d be super driven to stamp it out.” This was the exact argument put forth by defenders of Goldman Sachs when it was alleged they were screwing over their own customers in the financial crisis.

On the other hand, now people don't trust them and their stock is below where it was in 2007, compared to the market index which is at more than double that.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#234
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not believe as in “this is not a good faith answer”.

Exactly. Thanks for taking me literally. You definitely don’t deserve the downvotes but it appears the average ‘hacker’ here trusts Bezos more than us. Interesting, hey??

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23996125

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#235
post #198
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at Amazon, I personally knew someone who put in their two-weeks notice, and the next day they found out they were fired when their badge didn't work. From anecdotes I've heard, this happens if Amazon suspects a person is leaving to join a competitor. Amazon is very serious about protecting their data.

In the UK they would have to put the person on “gardening leave”. Firing in this way when someone’s done nothing wrong would be constructive dismissal and prohibited by law. The fact that Amazon treats their resigning employees in this way doesn’t increase my trust in them. It actually just makes them look viscous and petty.

What's the difference between this and gardening leave? Does Amazon not pay for those two weeks or what?

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#236
post #49

Any mention if the same non-guarantee applies to third party intellectual property on AWS? There doesn't seem to be much to stop them from "borrowing" code from AWS customers without anyone being the wiser.

This is why you encrypt, it’s not impossible to bypass but it would make it a gargantuan task.

If it runs on aws, it must be decrypted at some point. If it's not, then you're using it as a storage only. There are studies on "decryptionless" data computation but nowhere near practical stage yet

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#237

He should have said he can neither confirm nor deny. Not sure I am against commodity goods being driven to razor thin profit margins.

>commodity goods being driven to razor thin profit margins.

that's not the only factor

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#238
post #198
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at Amazon, I personally knew someone who put in their two-weeks notice, and the next day they found out they were fired when their badge didn't work. From anecdotes I've heard, this happens if Amazon suspects a person is leaving to join a competitor. Amazon is very serious about protecting their data.

In the UK they would have to put the person on “gardening leave”. Firing in this way when someone’s done nothing wrong would be constructive dismissal and prohibited by law. The fact that Amazon treats their resigning employees in this way doesn’t increase my trust in them. It actually just makes them look viscous and petty.

Many companies do the same thing. The employee isn’t fired they are just asked not to return for the 2 weeks. I’ve never heard of the employer not paying out the 2 weeks.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#239

"Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said Wednesday he can't guarantee employees have never used sales data from individual third-party sellers to develop the company's own products" There's no way he could make that guarantee. How can you prove a negative? The best Amazon can do is have policies, logs and access controls and punish employees if they break those policies. And Bezos committed to doing that.

Regardless. If he is not capable of guaranteeing this, then clearly Amazon is too big and complex to follow the law. If a person is incapable of following the law by controlling their own actions, we put them in a psychiatric asylum. If a corporation is incapable of following the law by controlling their own actions, what should be done with them? Clearly it would be unjust to let them continue. It's already bad enough that corporations have the same rights as people, they shouldn't be exempt from having to face the consequences of their transgressions because that would put their rights above people.

There are very strong ethical and economic grounds for breaking up these corporations. It merely comes down to the law. It really doesn't make sense that corporations are allowed to keep breaking the law and only get fined whereas if people keep breaking the law, they go to jail.

If people were treated the same as corporations and we abolished prisons, people would form mafias and go on rampages, hunt down billionaires, seize all their assets, then use the assets that they stole to pay the fines... Clearly that doesn't make any sense, it would be total anarchy; and yet this is exactly what we allow corporations to do.

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