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Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

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Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your mother caught you sneaking a cookie from the cookie jar with chocolate and crumbs stuck to your face and a quarter cookie cupped in your palm, would you expect to get away by saying "well I can't prove that I didn't sneak a cookie..."? Given the mountains of anecdata on this subject all pointing to Amazon openly and intentionally mining third party sales data, it seems overwhelmingly more likely that Bezos do…

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, though, on what constitutes abuse (and thus an anecdote for your assertion). Amazon openly mines third party sales data to bolster its in house brands, just as Costco does with Kirkland, Walmart with Parent's Choice, Trader Joe's does with their house brand, etc.. Amazon has a policy, as described in this article, of not allowing individual seller's data to be used in non-ag…

The issue is that Amazon can leverage that data, and no one else can. That is anti-competitive.

A grocer can get away with whitelabeling, because the manufacturer of the product is bought from as a supplier. Therefore every brand/product in the store, regardless of the manufacturer or "brand" is essentially the grocer's product. In that sense what grocer's are doing is more inventory management. None of their suppliers are "harmed" by that in house data processing.

Amazon, on the other hand, is fundamentally harming the members of it's marketplace because they never make a purchase to prop up other members of the marketplace. Instead, they use those marketplace actors in order to target high return corners of the market in which to compete without taking any of the risk; and crucially, without also making aggregate data available to all sellers.

In effect, every Amazon seller is a risk sink. Everyone else suffers the downsides of poor market fit, but if there's a sector with good profitability, you can bet that Amazon is on it as soon as possible with a brand new Amazon Basics offering. Essentially leveraging their scale to extract as much retail volume out of the market for themselves at everyone else's expense.

Dismissing this looking at seller data due to it being aggregated is like marketing one's tobacco as toasted. You're drawing attention to something irrelevant in the hopes that no one keeps going down the path that leads them to realize you're abusing your advantaged position to the detriment of everyone else involved.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the same principle apply to a tech company "privacy policy"? "We can't guarantee that policy has never been violated." Perhaps there is a way to make this guarantee: Do not collect the data to begin with.

Don't collect any sales data? That would mean no reviews or Q/A section because engagement there is a good proxy for sales. Search would also be completely broken because Amazon wouldn't know what products were good. Not to mention payment processing. How is Amazon going to pay sellers their money if Amazon has no data on what is bought and sold? Dealing with payments cannot be stateless for a number of technical and…

Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist.

If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well. Nonsense comparison.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#163

"Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said Wednesday he can't guarantee employees have never used sales data from individual third-party sellers to develop the company's own products" There's no way he could make that guarantee. How can you prove a negative? The best Amazon can do is have policies, logs and access controls and punish employees if they break those policies. And Bezos committed to doing that.

> How can you prove a negative? Answering “no” while under oath would be a good start.

You'd rather that CEOs perjure themselves?

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't collect any sales data? That would mean no reviews or Q/A section because engagement there is a good proxy for sales. Search would also be completely broken because Amazon wouldn't know what products were good. Not to mention payment processing. How is Amazon going to pay sellers their money if Amazon has no data on what is bought and sold? Dealing with payments cannot be stateless for a number of technical and…

Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist. If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well. Nonsense comparison.

> Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist.

You don't think stores should exist? How do you justify that?

>If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well.

I don't see how they are so different. Both are stores that sell third and first party items. BB even does significant online business. Care to explain?

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#165
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point. The bazaar part of amazon is the worst part for me. It’s purely noise. I hate it and do whatever I can to filter it out. I just want the store part of amazon and like their basics brand stuff.

In certain parts of the world supermarkets are built to be two stories or more so that the ground floor may be rented out to small vendors. I don't see anybody object to that.

Most people prefer to pay a fixed fair price instead of potentially being ripped off because they don't personally know the seller. Haggling constantly is an awful waste of time

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist. If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well. Nonsense comparison.

> Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist. You don't think stores should exist? How do you justify that? >If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well. I don't see how they are so different. Both are stores that sell third and first party items. BB even does significant online business. Care to explain?

Many sellers on Amazon have their own stores, be they brick and mortar and/or website. Amazon in these cases is just a middleman processing sales that the third parties are already capable of making themselves. They simply lack the web traffic. This is not true of all the brands carried by Best Buy. Many do not do direct-to-consumer sales.

There are less obvious differences such as the contract terms agreed between brands and Best Buy versus the ones between sellers and Amazon. Those details often are only discovered through litigation.

To suggest Best Buy was already doing what Amazon is doing is nonsense.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you prove a negative? Answering “no” while under oath would be a good start.

You'd rather that CEOs perjure themselves?

I'd rather that them saying "no" didn't mean they were perjuring themselves

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of many ex amazon employee anecdotes where people were “taken in the night” (didn’t have a job in the morning), and had their credentials and their teams credentials rotated due to a customer or seller data access overstep. As with most conspiracies the facts don’t add up super well in this case for Amazon - their whole company is based on trust. The cost of losing it would be huge, so they’d be super driven t…

well, they already lost everyone's trust for allowing the sale of low quality knock offs so who's to say we won't find out about some major privacy violations in the coming years?

People forgive them for that because it's so easy to return, and they are so quick to give a refund/make things right.

Also, I don't think as a percentage of purchases that they are as common as people think - the stories get lots of attention, but the regular shopping is ignored.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your assumption is that Amazon, the middleman, must exist. You don't think stores should exist? How do you justify that? >If Best Buy, a brick and mortar, were anything like Amazon, they would be under investigation as well. I don't see how they are so different. Both are stores that sell third and first party items. BB even does significant online business. Care to explain?

Many sellers on Amazon have their own stores, be they brick and mortar and/or website. Amazon in these cases is just a middleman processing sales that the third parties are already capable of making themselves. They simply lack the web traffic. This is not true of all the brands carried by Best Buy. Many do not do direct-to-consumer sales. There are less obvious differences such as the contract terms agreed between b…

> _Many_ sellers on Amazon.

> This is not true of _all_ the brands carried by Best Buy.

Now you're just playing word games. Both Amazon and Best Buy sell some amount of stuff that could be sold direct to consumer, and some amount of stuff that could not. Even if the proportions are different, I'm not seeing how they differ in principle.

Re: Jeff Bezos can’t promise Amazon employees don’t access independent seller data

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many sellers on Amazon have their own stores, be they brick and mortar and/or website. Amazon in these cases is just a middleman processing sales that the third parties are already capable of making themselves. They simply lack the web traffic. This is not true of all the brands carried by Best Buy. Many do not do direct-to-consumer sales. There are less obvious differences such as the contract terms agreed between b…

> _Many_ sellers on Amazon. > This is not true of _all_ the brands carried by Best Buy. Now you're just playing word games. Both Amazon and Best Buy sell some amount of stuff that could be sold direct to consumer, and some amount of stuff that could not. Even if the proportions are different, I'm not seeing how they differ in principle.

Gosh, you're right. How could I be so stupid? I can see now these taxpayer-funded investigations are a massive waste of resources and time. Can you tell the lawyers to drop it? Once they hear your Best Buy argument, I am sure they will see the light.
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