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Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

timjrobinson.com

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Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#71
post #54

most of the middle eastern countries have UBI. Hasnt really done anything for them

I wonder why people tend to ignore de facto near UBI in those places (for citizens). And since no one (citizens who get de facto UBI) wants to work, they have to import labor.

cough Kuwait cough

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#72
Honest question - how does one prevent inflation with UBI?

If the market price of an apartment is $500, and suddenly everyone gets UBI, the landlord would raise the price as much as he can, say $1000.

People on UBI are in the same relative position as before. They still can’t get the apartment because there’s enough people who have the UBI plus something else and can pay $1000.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#73
post #62

UBI is extremely dangerous as long as governments exist. Take what China is doing with their citizen score and it's not hard to imagine what could go wrong. "...imagine how easy it would be for such a government that was also providing a basic income to its citizens to manipulate their citizens based on that basic income that they depended on. If they can deny citizens access to things like public transportation base…

Do you feel the same way about foodstamps? This isn't an argument against UBI, it's an argument against any kind of government provided assistance at all.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#74

[flagged]

only if you put on the same blinders that the author does, and ignore things such as: - no mention whatsoever of any existential threats e.g. climate change. full faith and credit in Mr. Market to get us out of that rut, i guess - some definitions of "efficient" involve avoiding policies in one country (say worker and environmental protections) by moving to other countries where those same protections don't apply. so…

By making sure each person has their minimum needs met, one can then have a better chance at having support for solving big problems that require government which requires popular support.

There are schemes for UBI which don't actually cost much more than we are spending. It can just be reallocation with more clawback in taxes. If one wants to.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#75

Won’t it just be negated with increased cost of living? If people get 1000 a month free, you better believe that rent starts at 1000. The free money will never do what it’s supposed to do in the long run. It’s better to just give the actual service for free (healthcare, college, transportation).

That's a very hand-wavy and ridiculously over-simplified way to just dismiss an idea out of hand. May I suggest learning even the first thing about a new idea before so confidently asserting it could never possibly work?

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#76

Won’t it just be negated with increased cost of living? If people get 1000 a month free, you better believe that rent starts at 1000. The free money will never do what it’s supposed to do in the long run. It’s better to just give the actual service for free (healthcare, college, transportation).

Of course it would. Over time UBI would destroy the value of our currency, and those who use the dollar as their reserve currency would get wrecked as well. IMO an Implementation of UBI would require the creation of a new currency.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#78

Honest question - how does one prevent inflation with UBI? If the market price of an apartment is $500, and suddenly everyone gets UBI, the landlord would raise the price as much as he can, say $1000. People on UBI are in the same relative position as before. They still can’t get the apartment because there’s enough people who have the UBI plus something else and can pay $1000.

Inflation is set by the government. You just produce less money. You don't create an extra $500 to hand out, you take it from taxes.

This isn't different to how it works now. UBI isn't about making everyone millionaires, its just welfare/unemployment with less steps.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#79
I understand and agree with how a UBI will benefit those that are currently falling between the cracks and not receiving any assistance. I can also see the benefits of greatly simplifying the social security system. (If it was implemented in a way that was actually simple. i.e. no distinction between sick, unemployed, old, lazy)

But I don't understand why people don't believe the UBI will just become the new definition of poverty. People will still be miserable and feel like they have nothing when comparing themselves to those who get UBI and have a job.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#80

I can’t help but think that UBI would distort job markets. Let’s pick an example of a “sucky job” (and I say this as just an example, I realize these guys work hard and are vital). A garbage man. He get’s paid $42k a year because they have to find people who would be willing to do this sucky job and need to pay higher than minimum wage to do so. At some point of income, people would be willing to accept the suckiness…

It will definitely change job markets. I see driving for Uber as a "UBI" in the sense that it allows you to make money if you have a car and know how to drive (I know not everyone can front that money, point is just for illustration). Now what has happened to the broader labor market? Well, if you don't like your minimum wage job at present, you can always drive Uber (and at any time you want at that). That would make crappy jobs have higher wages (for the sacrifice in flexibility, intensity of labor, etc) and I think that's fine – it's just the market correcting for the alternatives people have to make money. I think actual UBI will help motivate us automate these mundane repetitive tasks in the long run that we currently employ humans for. Although there is still a lot to do, eventually people will have the choice to do repetitive, laborious work. Instead, they can focus higher level creative work everyday for something they enjoy.
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