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Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

timjrobinson.com

21–30 of 1001 posts

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#21
> Even the most hardcore anti-capitalists have to give respect to how the combination of capitalism and technology has worked to lift most of the world out poverty and provided us with the security and comfort only kings enjoyed just a few century’s ago.

no, we fucking don't.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#22
post #8

No, a land value tax is Capitalism 2.0 - deriving tax revenues from people who don't work instead of people who do work.

That’s a really regressive tax and would punish poor people, who have a much greater portion of their net worth tied up on land than a rich person.

It can be a land value tax with a progressive rate. And yah as other said, poor people don't own land anyways. Now the middle class would hate this.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#23
post #8

No, a land value tax is Capitalism 2.0 - deriving tax revenues from people who don't work instead of people who do work.

That’s a really regressive tax and would punish poor people, who have a much greater portion of their net worth tied up on land than a rich person.

For the 30% of Americans who rent it's not any of their net worth. But I agree it's weird to pick real estate as the only asset class. Introduce a progressive wealth tax and eliminate capital gains taxes in favor of taxing all income at one rate.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#24

I can’t help but think that UBI would distort job markets. Let’s pick an example of a “sucky job” (and I say this as just an example, I realize these guys work hard and are vital). A garbage man. He get’s paid $42k a year because they have to find people who would be willing to do this sucky job and need to pay higher than minimum wage to do so. At some point of income, people would be willing to accept the suckiness…

If I have to pay higher taxes but it means everyone is working in a job they love that seems like a worthwhile trade.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#25

I can’t help but think that UBI would distort job markets. Let’s pick an example of a “sucky job” (and I say this as just an example, I realize these guys work hard and are vital). A garbage man. He get’s paid $42k a year because they have to find people who would be willing to do this sucky job and need to pay higher than minimum wage to do so. At some point of income, people would be willing to accept the suckiness…

> Now we have no garbage man and the wage would need to increase to find new people. To cover that, taxes go up.

You're taking this as a given. Why? Remember that we are living in a time of record profits for many industries.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#26

I can’t help but think that UBI would distort job markets. Let’s pick an example of a “sucky job” (and I say this as just an example, I realize these guys work hard and are vital). A garbage man. He get’s paid $42k a year because they have to find people who would be willing to do this sucky job and need to pay higher than minimum wage to do so. At some point of income, people would be willing to accept the suckiness…

UBI frees people from economic coercion. poverty is like having a gun to your head. you do what you’ve gotta do. if salaries for essential, dirty jobs must go up, i am all for it.

No no you don't understand, people working of their own volition is distortion of the job market.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#27

I can’t help but think that UBI would distort job markets. Let’s pick an example of a “sucky job” (and I say this as just an example, I realize these guys work hard and are vital). A garbage man. He get’s paid $42k a year because they have to find people who would be willing to do this sucky job and need to pay higher than minimum wage to do so. At some point of income, people would be willing to accept the suckiness…

UBI frees people from economic coercion. poverty is like having a gun to your head. you do what you’ve gotta do. if salaries for essential, dirty jobs must go up, i am all for it.

I kind of get that, but on the other hand, you could say "Existence is like having a gun to your head. You do what you've got to do."

Because you need food and shelter to survive. There's been no point in time where we didn't have to acquire it. We're just now getting to the point where the production of it requires nominal effort.

These are unprecedented times.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#28
I feel like this is the perfect example why everyone should at some point be required to start a business. Because some of these ideas stem from to many people not understand the economy in a real sense because they are always workers and see the world through that lens.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#29

[flagged]

only if you put on the same blinders that the author does, and ignore things such as:

- no mention whatsoever of any existential threats e.g. climate change. full faith and credit in Mr. Market to get us out of that rut, i guess

- some definitions of "efficient" involve avoiding policies in one country (say worker and environmental protections) by moving to other countries where those same protections don't apply. so efficient seems to also mean unlawful, to some extent

- we'll trust these UBI recipients to "do the right thing" and goose up the economy immediately, instead of say, investing in infrastructure (education, health, science) that we know is a far better investment in the long term future of the country (but can't really be done by a couple grand per month, more like... i dunno... a government thing)

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#30

Won’t it just be negated with increased cost of living? If people get 1000 a month free, you better believe that rent starts at 1000. The free money will never do what it’s supposed to do in the long run. It’s better to just give the actual service for free (healthcare, college, transportation).

Is that totally guaranteed though? It’s important to remember that the landlords as well will be getting the 1000$ UBI. So yes, there will be landlords starting their rent at $1000, but there will also be landlords who start lower because they too have become more enriched from the UBI and don’t need to squeeze the margins as much anymore.
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