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Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

sticerd.lse.ac.uk

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Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#191

Post by charwalker »

SilasX wrote: post #166
jfrunyon wrote: post #143

Easy answer: because expenses are higher for poor people. Instead of buying a home, the lower class rent their whole life. Instead of their daddy giving them a home, the middle class pay interest on a mortgage most of their life. Instead of buying a 20-pack of $necessary_product that costs $20 and will last for months, the lower class buy a 2-pack that costs $5 and lasts a couple weeks because they need the $15 to pa…

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

Once a business or service is built around it, yes. But This likely can be solved via something that doesn't have to be profitable, just successful. Universal basic income could cover the gap. Stronger unions and enforcement of stronger regulations like curbing interest rates, providing personal finance resources for free like a financial adviser or community college course, or shoring up meals programs for poor kids are all options. It doesn't have to be a business to work.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#192

Post by charwalker »

frickinLasers wrote: post #190
SilasX wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the insight that the comment implies there's an easy source of free money that also lifts everyone out of poverty with little effort. Do you not count that as an insight? Were you aware of that implication before seeing my comment? Is there a reason you need copious data to back up my comment but not the original one?

The OP implies no such thing.

That was OP being sarcastic and stating no further point other than they don't have one.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#193

Post by lazyjones »

jyounker wrote: post #99
lazyjones wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on data from the Third World and destined to be used to argue for policy changes (towards wealth redistribution) in the First World.

This is anecdotal, but having grown up poor, I can tell you that the research is perfectly applicable in the first world.

And I grew up poor and can tell you it's not. In the First World, you have other opportunities to earn wealth than having more than enough livestock. Go to school, study something worthwhile, start a company and prosper.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#194

Post by jcun4128 »

wahern wrote: post #176
jcun4128 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not read that. There is something nice about dishwasher jobs because they're high turnover rate/low barrier to entry/can get hired pretty quickly. Granted in some cases I had to go through some application process eg. take a quiz on running over 2 people or 1 on train tracks, etc... but yeah. I'm hoping at least by now, I have enough "value" as a developer to be able to worst case freelance hourly or something…

Have you heard of Dishwasher Pete? Many people, myself included, seemed to have learned about his zine after listening to one of his memorable public radio appearances: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/102/road-trip/act-one-0 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/115/first-day/act-one-0 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=109915... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_Pete NOTE: This American Life au…

Thanks for the links I will read/take a listen as I have time. Ooh this will be good/will listen to it for my cooking/cleaning podcasts heh.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#195

Post by wolfgke »

charwalker wrote: post #191
SilasX wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

Once a business or service is built around it, yes. But This likely can be solved via something that doesn't have to be profitable, just successful. Universal basic income could cover the gap. Stronger unions and enforcement of stronger regulations like curbing interest rates, providing personal finance resources for free like a financial adviser or community college course, or shoring up meals programs for poor kids…

> Universal basic income could cover the gap.

UBI does not solve the problem outlined by jfrunyon that

> expenses are higher for poor people.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#196

Post by charwalker »

badRNG wrote: post #131
ghufran_syed wrote: post #121

I’m not qualified to judge the technical merits of the paper, but their conclusion seems plausible. They concluded that in an illiterate rural population, there did seem to be a threshold effect in asset levels above which it seemed much easier to progress economically. But it’s unclear to me how applicable this is to the poor in the US or other developed economies, particularly when we’re talking about a population…

> by those measures there are no poor people in the US That doesn't feel like a meaningful metric when there are as many as 17% of mothers with young children experiencing food insecurity [1]. Perhaps that's due to COVID, but 11% of households were food insecure as recently as 2018 [2]. Around half a million Americans are homeless, and 35% of them are shelterless [3]. Are all of these people "not poor" and are they "…

You're agreeing with their point with good evidence. Whatever set of metrics or filters are used to identify 'poor' needs to vary based on the context of the conversation. I think most metrics have been left as is for decades to have consistent reporting like how we can say 'Poverty has fallen X% in [COUNTRY] since [20 years ago]'

But that doesn't give a fair view for all nations. Food insecurity is a metric that would quickly show poor improvement over decades, at least compared to current metrics. Maybe access to affordable housing, water, power, and other items on the first 2 level of Maslow's Hierarchy would work better.

In the end, we may learn a lot about 'first world' economies like the US and the areas failed by capitalism. I think many of the metrics pulled out could be used to argue either way Numbers on food insecurity could be spun as "We need to fund and support our citizens and make this better" or "Look how far ahead we are so do nothing or cut programs to save money!"

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#197

Post by SilasX »

frickinLasers wrote: post #190
SilasX wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the insight that the comment implies there's an easy source of free money that also lifts everyone out of poverty with little effort. Do you not count that as an insight? Were you aware of that implication before seeing my comment? Is there a reason you need copious data to back up my comment but not the original one?

The OP implies no such thing.

Are we reading the same comment?

>Instead of buying a 20-pack of $necessary_product that costs $20 and will last for months, the lower class buy a 2-pack that costs $5 and lasts a couple weeks because they need the $15 to pay rent.

That directly implies that if they could be lent the $15, they could get the long term cheaper option and save money, even if they had to pay it back plus a high APR.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#198

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

petra wrote: post #173
SilasX wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

In Israel in the 60-80's the state created "rent to own" housing projects for poor people. It worked pretty well.

Meanwhile, in the USA, the only "rent to own" that we have are places like Rent-A-Center where you pay $20/week for a year for something that has a retail value of $300.

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#199

Post by TeMPOraL »

SilasX wrote: post #166
jfrunyon wrote: post #143

Easy answer: because expenses are higher for poor people. Instead of buying a home, the lower class rent their whole life. Instead of their daddy giving them a home, the middle class pay interest on a mortgage most of their life. Instead of buying a 20-pack of $necessary_product that costs $20 and will last for months, the lower class buy a 2-pack that costs $5 and lasts a couple weeks because they need the $15 to pa…

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

Isn't this essentially the whole premise behind microfinance (microloans), which are a form of charity?

Re: Why Do People Stay Poor? [pdf]

#200

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

SilasX wrote: post #166
jfrunyon wrote: post #143

Easy answer: because expenses are higher for poor people. Instead of buying a home, the lower class rent their whole life. Instead of their daddy giving them a home, the middle class pay interest on a mortgage most of their life. Instead of buying a 20-pack of $necessary_product that costs $20 and will last for months, the lower class buy a 2-pack that costs $5 and lasts a couple weeks because they need the $15 to pa…

If so, turn it into a perpetually profitable self-funding charity that fronts the poor the money to get the cheaper option in return for a cut of the savings. It's probably not possible because there are factors other than what you described.

Just because you created a way for someone to pay bulk rate in smaller amounts doesn't make the savings magically appear in a bank account.

At best, you just invented credit cards. But poor people often either can't get credit cards, or the interest rates are astronomical, or they require a cash deposit (that they can't afford) to secure them.

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