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Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

hongkongfp.com

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Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#61

Post by keiferski »

supernova87a wrote: post #59
keiferski wrote: post #58

I recently purchased Unfree Speech by Joshua Wong, a prominent Hong Kong activist who was imprisoned for 6 months (at the age of 20) for his political activity. I recommend it, as it is a pretty informal, quick read. It felt...odd...reading a contemporary story about political imprisonment. Somehow the term itself feels antiquated, but alas here we are.

Careful... under the new HK security laws, you might be at risk for financially supporting or abetting someone involved in secessionist activities! (kidding, but not completely -- read Article 21: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Law_of_the_People%27s_Republi... )

Wong actually explicitly says he is against secession in the book, but I doubt that detail is relevant for a motivated prosecutor.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#62

Post by FooBarWidget »

kick wrote: post #54
robjan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

The Chinese government allows dissent to some degree; "disappearing" of critics isn't universal and shouldn't be seen as such. Criticize it for things it actually does, of which there are many.

I don't know why your other post was flagged. I just want to say two things in reply.

You read too much into why I mentioned "foreigner". I actually wanted to ask whether people consider the video that I posted above, which is made by an actual foreigner (as a fact, not as an insinuation of anything more) can be considered an honest opinion.

I also used the word "valid" as a shorthand for "an opinion that deserves to be heard and considered, rather than downvoted or dismissed", for the lack of a better term.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#63

Post by op03 »

ponker wrote: post #50
Johnjonjoan wrote: post #2

When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.

This was always an inevitability. China could ostensibly take territory from any of its neighbors except Russia. The idea that a small island would be able to stay independent was temporary.

Nothing is obvious in geopolitics. See US-Cuba, India-Sri Lanka-LTTE, Iraq-Kuwait etc. Being larger just means you can make risky moves. But those moves can blow up in spectacular unpredictable ways.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#64

Post by yorwba »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #51
loyukfai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

There was an article by Time magazine showing that the US froze funding for Hong Kong protesters: https://time.com/5860163/trump-hong-kong-funding-freeze/

I don't think the OTFs "Information Controls Fellowship" https://www.opentech.fund/funds/icfp/ or "Rapid Response Fund" https://www.opentech.fund/funds/rapid-response-fund/ with their focus on technology and the internet are what people usually think of when they talk about "riots funded by the US".

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#65

Post by lostlogin »

non-entity wrote: post #22
ciarannolan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, but I don't think that applies here. I'm not accusing that poster of "astroturfing, shilling, brigading, [or being a] foreign agent". I'm saying that they're parroting CCP propaganda in the form of an extremely questionable survey and that generally attracts downvotes here (including mine).

Ok sorry, I read into that incorrectly then. I've read too many threads accusing people of being state actors in similar fashions recently

It’s an interesting comment history and the pro CCP angle is pushed hard. However that doesn’t mean views are necessarily always wrong - though mine are in strong opposition. @Dang has a horrible task dealing with this stuff.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#66

Post by cambalache »

ponker wrote: post #50
Johnjonjoan wrote: post #2

When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.

This was always an inevitability. China could ostensibly take territory from any of its neighbors except Russia. The idea that a small island would be able to stay independent was temporary.

What "small island" ? I think you are confusing Hong Kong with Taiwan.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#67

Post by paulcarroty »

ponker wrote: post #50
Johnjonjoan wrote: post #2

When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.

This was always an inevitability. China could ostensibly take territory from any of its neighbors except Russia. The idea that a small island would be able to stay independent was temporary.

Just checked his comments - 99% of Chinese propaganda, don't feed the troll.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#68

Post by kick »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #62
kick wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government allows dissent to some degree; "disappearing" of critics isn't universal and shouldn't be seen as such. Criticize it for things it actually does, of which there are many.

I don't know why your other post was flagged. I just want to say two things in reply. You read too much into why I mentioned "foreigner". I actually wanted to ask whether people consider the video that I posted above, which is made by an actual foreigner (as a fact, not as an insinuation of anything more) can be considered an honest opinion. I also used the word "valid" as a shorthand for "an opinion that deserves to…

If he's representing his affiliations honestly, why wouldn't it be? Faking video is harder than lying about who you are on the internet.

To point back to that comment, Chinese living in China have just as much a right to have opinions on it, and so do Americans living in America, but neither of their opinions are worth half as much as people living in Hong Kong. As long as they're representing themselves honestly (as Chinese or Americans, living in their respective countries), they've still got honest opinions, even if their opinions don't matter as much as the ones of people living in Hong Kong.

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#69

Post by Johnjonjoan »

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #2

When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.

As most of the counterarguments make the same point I will make a blanket reply:

China among other nations have been playing a game for a while. I call it "can we get away with it" (all states play this game to some extent).

This listing of Chinese tech companies that are taking a hammering from Western policy as China becomes near peer (this is just the start) isn't subtle enough to be part of this game IMO. To me this listing was a statement - they are fully aware it's going to make the West double down on ending any outstanding preferential treatment. What they are saying is: "we don't care if we can get away with it. It's ours.".

Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK

#70

Post by mywittyname »

Does anyone have insight into how secessionists think that a successful campaign will play out?

The state is small and a shares border with China, so it's not some situation where it will be easy to repeal invaders. And the people are at a severe military disadvantage. Even if every Hong Konger was armed, trained, and well lead, China could wage a war of attrition and win without a single shot fired.

I feel like their only hope would be if America deployed troops to HK and kept the city fed via air supply like with Berlin. And I can't imagine this having much, if any support within the US government or military.

Maybe these people just assume that protests and pressure from foreign governments will be enough to secure their freedom? I can't imagine China giving up on reintegrating HK and will do so by force, if required.

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