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The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

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Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#31

Post by nahuel0x »

Koshkin wrote: post #17
nahuel0x wrote: post #3

Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform itself into capitalist oligarchs by seizing and privatizing the state enterprises instead of creating an open, democratic and scientific economic planning system. Trotsky was right.

> Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform Quite the opposite: soviet bureaucracy didn't want to transform anything, they were more concerned with maintaining the status quo for as long as they could. This is why the system turned out to be too rigid to withstand the pressures of the modern world. On the other hand, think about how much the planned economy would benefit from the wide-spread automation and access to mod…

The bureaucracy wanted to maintain the status quo (and his privileged position in it) but in the long run their interest as a caste were directed to restore capitalism, as they sat on a contradictory position (e.g., no inheritance rights). There was a big Trotsky-Burnham debate in late 1930's about this. The common idea of the soviet bureaucracy wanting only to keep the status quo made many in all sides of the ideological spectrum to be surprised by the USSR fast turn to capitalism.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#32

Post by Apocryphon »

Koshkin wrote: post #17
nahuel0x wrote: post #3

Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform itself into capitalist oligarchs by seizing and privatizing the state enterprises instead of creating an open, democratic and scientific economic planning system. Trotsky was right.

> Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform Quite the opposite: soviet bureaucracy didn't want to transform anything, they were more concerned with maintaining the status quo for as long as they could. This is why the system turned out to be too rigid to withstand the pressures of the modern world. On the other hand, think about how much the planned economy would benefit from the wide-spread automation and access to mod…

Cybersyn, then

https://hn.algolia.com/?q=cybersyn

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#33

Post by bluetomcat »

trabant00 wrote: post #23

You can't come up with plan like this and not come up with 'what's in it for them' in Russia or Eastern Europe. Not even now.

Case in point - Bulgaria. Overstaffed state administration consisting of more than 400 thousand people spread throughout the whole country, for a population of 6.5m. All that staff are regular hard voters for the currently ruling party, in exchange for promises for pay increases and bonuses. There is also strong resistance to introducing any effective electronic governance because it might render these people unemployed, and that would also compromise the whole power structure.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#34

Post by simonjgreen »

Spooky23 wrote: post #25
nradov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had other protocols. TCP/IP won exactly because it was technically superior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Wars

Somewhat related, Netheads vs. Bellheads https://www.wired.com/1996/10/atm-3/ I briefly worked at a place fully dominated by Bellheads early in my career. They were bemoaning IP and holding on to ATM stuff as late as 2001. I'm told that the last of their tribe (after I left) fought off VoIP as a passing fad well into the 2000s.

ATM is still actively in use in broadband networks all over the place. Its a real pain when you're on the ISP side.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#35

Post by tvalentyn »

There is a good book covering the development of computing in Kyiv written by a contemporary of Glushkov: intro: http://www.icfcst.kiev.ua/MUSEUM/DIFFERENT/StoreEternally.ht... pdf: http://www.icfcst.kiev.ua/MUSEUM/TXT/MalinovskiyBN_StoreEter...

See also: http://www.icfcst.kiev.ua/MUSEUM/museum-map.html

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#38

Post by Koshkin »

mantas wrote: post #28
Koshkin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform Quite the opposite: soviet bureaucracy didn't want to transform anything, they were more concerned with maintaining the status quo for as long as they could. This is why the system turned out to be too rigid to withstand the pressures of the modern world. On the other hand, think about how much the planned economy would benefit from the wide-spread automation and access to mod…

What would planned economy do with hands not needed anymore? :) Even with totally unproductive economy, USSR had lots and lots of bullshit jobs just to keep people employed. What would USSR do with tons of unemployed people? Create fake jobs? Or what... let people find out what they'd like to do and let them start private initiatives?!?

No problem there: an efficient planned economy would have no trouble whatsoever also planning for bullshit jobs, efficiently.

Incidentally, does not look like bullshit jobs were specific to the USSR, they are indeed everywhere.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#39

Post by 082349872349872 »

ZinniaZirconium wrote: post #4

It would have been so cool if the USSR had its own internet and shared it with China and China were still running it now because wouldn't it be great to stop hearing about how people think firewalling the entire Chinese IP space will keep hackers out. Also a parallel internet built on something other than TCP/IP would promote competition to see which internet design is technically superior. But realistically nobody w…

Every now and then I run across a site still serving X-Clacks-Overhead.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#40

Post by chupasaurus »

kome wrote: post #7

Unrelated, but fun: the .su (soviet union) domain is still active and running. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su http://www.fid.su/

Unfun part is that the administrator of the zone (which is ROSNIIROS not the FID) is being overtaken by the government.
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