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When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

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Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#31

Post by jaywalk »

kumarvvr wrote: post #21
wlesieutre wrote: post #7

Does this mean if there's a developer I don't like, I can buy their stuff and refund it to arbitrarily cost them money at no cost to myself and there's nothing they can do about it? That seems ... not great, especially these days. What happens when mobs of internet morons decide review bombing isn't sufficient and realize Apple will help them cause direct financial harm instead?

It will not cost them money, per se. Apple is keeping money from you.

Seems like a pointless technicality. If somebody refunds my $100 app and Apple "keeps" $30 from me, that means the next person who buys my app only earns me $40. I've lost $30 either way.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#32

Post by [deleted] »

kumarvvr wrote: post #21
wlesieutre wrote: post #7

Does this mean if there's a developer I don't like, I can buy their stuff and refund it to arbitrarily cost them money at no cost to myself and there's nothing they can do about it? That seems ... not great, especially these days. What happens when mobs of internet morons decide review bombing isn't sufficient and realize Apple will help them cause direct financial harm instead?

It will not cost them money, per se. Apple is keeping money from you.

[deleted]

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#33

Post by saagarjha »

oliverx0 wrote: post #18

Seems fair to me. Apple provided with you a service and charged your for it. It is a cost associated with distributing / developing your product. Why should Apple be responsible for refunding you? It was not their fault that the customer decided their money back.

Apple prices the exact same things into hardware distribution too, but when you ask for your money back there they give it back in full, not minus the “service” they already provided you.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#34

Post by _nalply »

ryanlol wrote: post #11
bronzeage wrote: post #8

App stores need heavy regulations. It's not only Apple but Google and even steam to a small extent. Apple is of course the biggest offender as they heavily guard their monopoly with code signing enforcement. This shouldn't have been legal. They are the very definitions of predatory competition squashing monopolies.

Why do app stores need separate regulations? > They are the very definitions of predatory competition squashing monopolies. But they aren’t, this is a rather competitive space.

Competitive between developers and perhaps platforms but absolutely a monopoly for iOS.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#35

Post by glofish »

dawnerd wrote: post #19
gregoriol wrote: post #4

Not saying it's exactly the same situation, but Stripe keeps their fees when you refund a payment

It’s pretty common across the board. 30% is really high for sure, but payment processors gotta get paid at some point. I think Apple should split the fee up. Make a portion what they charge for processing payments and the rest their commission.

correct, there is a huge difference between taking 3% and 30%

one is the cost of doing business, the other is predatory

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#36

Post by jbob2000 »

glofish wrote: post #9
jbob2000 wrote: post #2

Well yeah, I still need to pay shipping for amazon to send me a product even if I need to return it because it's broken. I would have no product to return if I did not pay for the shipping to receive the product. Apple would justify that 30% being non-refundable by saying "you would have never had that client to refund if you did not give us that 30%". They did their job, they got you the client, you were the one who…

Where this analogy fails is that shipping is not a fixed percent of a product cost. And the cost of refund is the same to Apple for a product that cost $1 just as it is for products that cost $100.

My point is that the fee is about “delivering you the customer”. Apple delivered you the customer. That the customer and you were unhappy is no bearing on their ability to deliver that customer to you.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#37

Post by lacker »

ryanlol wrote: post #11
bronzeage wrote: post #8

App stores need heavy regulations. It's not only Apple but Google and even steam to a small extent. Apple is of course the biggest offender as they heavily guard their monopoly with code signing enforcement. This shouldn't have been legal. They are the very definitions of predatory competition squashing monopolies.

Why do app stores need separate regulations? > They are the very definitions of predatory competition squashing monopolies. But they aren’t, this is a rather competitive space.

It seems like a pretty clear duopoly to me, Apple and Android are the only two mobile platforms, and rather than compete with each other on price they are just both leaving their cut at 30%. Personally it’s not even the 30% I mind so much as, maybe there are cool new products like new mobile browsers that are just forbidden by the app stores and so we will never get them.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#38

Post by ryanlol »

bronzeage wrote: post #25
ryanlol wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do app stores need separate regulations? > They are the very definitions of predatory competition squashing monopolies. But they aren’t, this is a rather competitive space.

The stock market is heavily regulated. Commodity markets are regulated. It's actually the slowness and corruption of the law makers that we're still without any regulations to virtual markets.

How are app stores like stock markets or commodity markets?

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#39

Post by bena »

I don't think the issue is that Apple is keeping its fee even with a return. That on some level is fair. They are providing a service to the developer.

The bigger question is whether their cut should be 30% in the first place.

30% was chosen by the first store of this type and it's just never been questioned by platforms. I just read that Valve recently changed their agreement to be a sliding scale based on sales (30% to start, falling to 20% if you hit certain numbers).

But as far as I know, Microsoft, Sony, Apple, and Google all do a 30/70 split on digital sales.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#40

Post by raverbashing »

lolsal wrote: post #5

Apple is taking a cut for providing the store itself, distribution, visibility, SDKs/frameworks, etc. Why would they refund 30%?

Developers do have to pay an yearly fee to just be an iOS developer, so the argument that's because of the SDKs is incorrect
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