Xinjiang is prototype for fully totalitarian state: Taiwan minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Xinjiang is prototype for fully totalitarian state: Taiwan minister

#61

Post by winrid » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

wnscooke wrote: post #37

winrid wrote: post #32

Didn't read article yet, but when I was in Xinjiang it was an area with very high security (more cameras, more police with guns, giant vehicle barricades around elementary schools). If you ask the locals, they'll tell you it's to protect them from the Uighurs. It seems the conflict there is (was?) a real problem, with Han Chinese being murdered regularly with some communities having to put the men on watch at night.

Not true. The Han were not being murdered by Uighurs regularly. And every housing development has a gate and guardhouse, almost always has been like that since the danwei days. What is true is that the Han have been scared into fearing the Uighur by twisted news reporting. And once they are scared, any action by a minority looks scary. It’s also true that Uighur have lashed out after horrible treatment at the hands o…

Sure, just sharing observations.

The schools for example had officers with submachine guns when it was time to let out, and giant vehicle barricades. I suppose this could be to scare people. But that's what's there.

Re: Xinjiang is prototype for fully totalitarian state: Taiwan minister

#62

Post by ebalit » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #58

Robotbeat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn’t true. The ethnic cleansing in the Uyghur regions is well-documented by several independent sources. EDIT: Here’s one: https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c And BTW, your sources include a Medium post, a YouTube video, and Chinese govt controlled media. These are hardly reputable journalistic sources.

Your article literally is an example of what the OP cited: - Multiple citations from Zenz (+Pompeo for bonus points) - Entire article revolves around testimony of those with 2+ children being subjected to family planning policies (IUD / sterilizations etc). - Mentions "now-abandoned ‘one child’ policy" without providing context of that new "Two-Child" policy is in affect for everyone, with no minority exemptions. - C…

Could you point me towards what you are referring to when you say "boring techno authoritarian reeducation camps (like in France)"? As a French, I don't know about any program in France that would fit this description.

Re: Xinjiang is prototype for fully totalitarian state: Taiwan minister

#63

Post by frequentnapper » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #10

frequentnapper wrote: post #3

She specifically warns about chinese companies inflitrating infrastructure and the Canadian govt just handed over our embassy security to them: https://nationalpost.com/news/chinese-government-owned-firm-... .

At least they're not networked. The potential threat model seems a lot easier to manage.

still, to be handing over money to a chinese govt owned and subsidized company at the cost of our own perfectly capable industry who can't compete with their subsidies is just foolish.

Re: Xinjiang is prototype for fully totalitarian state: Taiwan minister

#64

Post by dirtyid » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

ebalit wrote: post #62

dirtyid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your article literally is an example of what the OP cited: - Multiple citations from Zenz (+Pompeo for bonus points) - Entire article revolves around testimony of those with 2+ children being subjected to family planning policies (IUD / sterilizations etc). - Mentions "now-abandoned ‘one child’ policy" without providing context of that new "Two-Child" policy is in affect for everyone, with no minority exemptions. - C…

Could you point me towards what you are referring to when you say "boring techno authoritarian reeducation camps (like in France)"? As a French, I don't know about any program in France that would fit this description.

Search French deradicalization boot camps + radicalization monitoring list. Quick research suggest the 2016 program was only partially implemented before being shut down and rebooted under new program in 2018 [0]. Of course the scale in China is going to be greater and execution more comprehensive due to nature of Chinese capabilities. To clarify, I'm only suggesting conceptually the approaches are similar and do not equivocate the two in execution.

The greater context is, Islamic attacks in multicultural European societies in the past 10 years (particularly in England + France) informed internal decision making in China regarding XJ. I remember French banlieue / ethnic enclaves where radicalization was happening were part of conversation on policy debates to revise minority policy in China a few years ago. The position being multicultural "salad bowl", classic soviet oblast model where minorities had relative cultural autonomy had failed to reign in extremism (and separatism in China's case), so now everyone gets sinicized and the Han treatment, aka blending into the US melting pot model.

[0] https://www.france24.com/en/20180223-france-deradicalisation...