The worst tool for the job • Hacker News Board

Re: The worst tool for the job

#121

Post by wrycoder » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #45

I follow a completely opposite model. I research and learn as much as I can about something before committing to it and get the best equipment I can afford. Consequently, I’ve enjoyed all my hobbies over the years and find myself going back to things often. I have never regretted investing in quality tools. It’s not necessary to buy the most expensive option, but prioritizing quality and ergonomics over price is the…

Agree. I buy high quality tools and keep them for life. I have a toolbox full of Craftsman tools that are about 60 years old, which are enough to completely rebuild a car - and have done so several times.

I have 50 year old garden tools that have decades of life left. The handles get a quick sanding and a coat of linseed oil every year or two. We do, however, wear out pitchforks in about 15 years: the tines get too short!

If I bought crappy tools, I'd have a life full of crappy tools, which is not my style. I don't buy gold plated or frilly tools, though.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#122

Post by travisjungroth » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #113

cmehdy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you don't know what the minimum viable is because you are a beginner and don't know yourself well in that field. For example, I started running with shoes that were somewhat fine for beginners when I would double-check online, but happened to have limitations that affected people who practice a lot, or people who don't practice properly, or in my case undiagnosed issues (hypermobility of the knee). In my ca…

I had a similar experience learning the piano when I was a kid. Understandably, my parents started me out with a cheap $100 electric keyboard, which was good enough for the first year or so of practice. As I improved, though, it became a big hindrance to my progress, as 1) the keys were unweighted, 2) the speakers couldn't accurately produce high/low notes, and 3) the keys were slightly smaller than the standard size…

This seems like a vote to follow the advice of the post (as does the comment you replied to). You bought the cheap one first, but you didn’t buy the upgrade when it made sense.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#123

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #37

3pt14159 wrote: post #20

I do this a different way. I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. Pen: Very expensive. Sunglasses: Very expensive. Phone: Very expensive. Laptop: Very expensive. Shoes / most clothing: Midrange, since they don't last long, but they're n…

> Sunglasses: Very expensive. This one is confusing. Sunglasses are 90% fashion. What exactly are you getting with an expensive pair? I take the opposite route. Cheap sunglasses that I'm unconcerned about dropping, sitting on, or leaving behind.

I'm OP.

Merely paying more for sunglasses doesn't make them good. It takes a long time to find ones that are muted enough to be cool, and yet with enough flourish in the details to be distinctive.

There is also the quality of the light that is filtered. I only ever buy "*3" (high degree of light protection) and preferably with polarized for better contrast. Whether it is $250 or $500 they're on your face so much they're a much and a quality pair will last years. It's a good thing to spend money on, though I do admit that it doesn't always have to be expensive. You can get lucky and find a great pair in an old antiques shop and get them re-lensed for something reasonable.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#124

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #42

3pt14159 wrote: post #20

I do this a different way. I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. Pen: Very expensive. Sunglasses: Very expensive. Phone: Very expensive. Laptop: Very expensive. Shoes / most clothing: Midrange, since they don't last long, but they're n…

>I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. [...] >Housing: Far cheaper than I could afford. Why? Isn't a house something that can last decades and is something you use every day?

This is complicated. Housing doubles as a bet on the local property values as well as a good that needs to be repaired and maintained. It's also subject to property tax, so the more you have the more tax you pay. At least here in Toronto.

Between investing in other assets like stocks (or, more realistically holding cash until the stock market stops acting crazy) I think housing is overvalued where I live right now and the maintenance is more of a hassle than I'm willing to put up with right now.

But you're not fully wrong. If I lived somewhere in the sticks I'd build a lot more house. Less property tax, less alternatives like plays or parks. Also, in the country more of your investments can earn or save money, like gardens or vineyards or workshops. In the city it's usually just a waste of space.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#125

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:49 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent the jackhammer, don't buy it. (Unless you actually need a jackhammer somewhat regularly.) You can rent tools at Home Depot for considerably less than the cost of buying them. If you're only going to need them once, rent. (I did this with a hammer drill. It was absolutely worth it, just to punch four holes in concrete. But I've only needed to do that once, and I don't seem likely to need to do it again. So why bu…

There's few tools where buying a cheap but good enough to do the job one is more expensive than renting twice. Also if you own your own jack hammer and whatnot you'll take on projects you would have otherwise not.

Yeah I'm the OP. It's funny, I bought the jackhammer for a single job after doing the math that it would cost me just as much as renting a more expensive one. That was over a decade ago. Since then it's been used countless times for all sorts of random jobs where we otherwise would have used a pickaxe or a chisel or an axe. We even split logs with it out at my parents house, haha.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#126

Post by nytf3 » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

gk1 wrote: post #2

What a great principle. One of those things I've felt for a long time but never express so well as John did. This idea extends to many other things, like... sports equipment. Beginner runners/bikers/skateboarders/whatever will not really feel the difference between equipment that cost $100 and $1,000, so get the cheap one and use it to (its) death. If you're still into the sport by then, go ahead and get the nicer on…

skateboarding is a very bad example here - there is a noticeable difference in the quality/bearings of a "beginner" equipment that comes from Walmart/Target that costs ~60, and a proper setup from a skateboard shop that costs ~120.

The beginner equipment is more likely to get you hurt by breaking, and the bearings will be very very slow.

For other sports, running/biking/skiing/etc I think this difference is not as pronounced.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#127

Post by benrbray » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

travisjungroth wrote: post #122

benrbray wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience learning the piano when I was a kid. Understandably, my parents started me out with a cheap $100 electric keyboard, which was good enough for the first year or so of practice. As I improved, though, it became a big hindrance to my progress, as 1) the keys were unweighted, 2) the speakers couldn't accurately produce high/low notes, and 3) the keys were slightly smaller than the standard size…

This seems like a vote to follow the advice of the post (as does the comment you replied to). You bought the cheap one first, but you didn’t buy the upgrade when it made sense.

Exactly! Unfortunately as a small child it was out of my hands :(

Re: The worst tool for the job

#128

Post by bdowling » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

meritganset wrote: post #117

cmehdy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you don't know what the minimum viable is because you are a beginner and don't know yourself well in that field. For example, I started running with shoes that were somewhat fine for beginners when I would double-check online, but happened to have limitations that affected people who practice a lot, or people who don't practice properly, or in my case undiagnosed issues (hypermobility of the knee). In my ca…

It sounds like you're the type of person to blame external factors for your own issues. Nothing you're saying counters the original advice. Additionally, in the guitar example, you learned how to play and learned what it meant to own a decent guitar. Then, when presented with the opportunity to buy a new guitar: bought a crappy one, ignoring everything you had already learned about the instrument. Given that you were…

> Nothing you're saying counters the original advice.

The original advice was to buy the cheapest thing and just use it. GP's advice was "Sometimes you don't know what the minimum viable is because you are a beginner and don't know yourself well in that field."

GP then gave specific examples of cheap products that aren't particularly suitable for beginners: (1) cheap running shoes that lead to bad habits and possible injuries and (2) cheap guitars that are difficult to play. For both examples, he described how as a beginner he lacked the experience to know what he needed.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#129

Post by KineticLensman » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #118

gk1 wrote: post #2

What a great principle. One of those things I've felt for a long time but never express so well as John did. This idea extends to many other things, like... sports equipment. Beginner runners/bikers/skateboarders/whatever will not really feel the difference between equipment that cost $100 and $1,000, so get the cheap one and use it to (its) death. If you're still into the sport by then, go ahead and get the nicer on…

> Beginner runners/bikers/skateboarders/whatever will not really feel the difference between equipment that cost $100 and $1,000 As a general rule I disagree. If beginners don't feel the difference, that's because they only used the $100 equipment, they would be better off with the $1000 one. I first noticed that with skis. I am not a great skier by any mean, but just for kicks I tried renting the best equipment I co…

> I first noticed that with skis. I am not a great skier by any mean, but just for kicks I tried renting the best equipment I could find and wow, what a difference it made

I had the exact same comment. Luckily with skiing you can often try hire skis for a day rather than committing to purchasing expensive kit. You may also benefit from advances in ski tech rather than being locked in for years to an expensive early purchase. This happened to me when carving skis replaced the long straight and stiff skis that were prevalent when I started.

Ski boots, however, are a different story, especially if you have non-standard feet (e.g. flat arches, wide toes, etc). After a couple of painful early holidays with ill-fitting boots, often selected quickly in a busy hire shop, I purchased a reasonably expensive pair with a customised fit and the difference in comfort was astounding. In practical terms I could ski 'til the end of the day without getting painful feet.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#130

Post by the_cat_kittles » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #4

Eh, something to be said for mid-range too. I have a 12v cordless drill. Ended up saving me tons of work over the years but by no means either the best or the worst. Musical instruments. The low-end ones tend to be true disasters. Mid-range CPUs and GPUs are wonderful. Kitchen mixers, knives, screwdrivers, soldering irons, drill presses, etc. Plenty of times the worst tool is so obviously terrible that you probably s…

yep- entirely application specific. for machine tools, expensive is pretty much the only way to go for metrology and bits and mills etc. for instruments you are totally right- the cheapest professional grade instruments are almost always the best value. great comment