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The worst tool for the job

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Re: The worst tool for the job

#61

Post by hanche »

klodolph wrote: post #44
kerkeslager wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one caveat: at some point, you reach a level of expertise such that you can evaluate tools for yourself, and don't need rules of thumb like this. At that point a mid-grade tool might make sense. I do have some expertise in some of the areas you mentioned, and disagree with you: Musical instruments: if you're starting off on guitar, get a used Yamaha for $80 and spend as much money as you can on lessons. It's bet…

$80 guitar and spending money on lessons—this goes against every piece of advice I’ve ever heard from a guitar teacher about buying your first guitar. That is, buy something good enough that it doesn’t make you miserable when you’re just starting out. A lot of $80 guitars are absolutely miserable, or will be miserable shortly after you take them home. > It's better to be a virtuoso with a Yamaha than to have a high-e…

Totally agree. What’s more, if you discover that guitar playing isn’t for you, you can always sell it if it is a decent one. It may not cost you more in the end than if you bought a cheap one and threw it away or let it rot in the attic.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#62

Post by kerkeslager »

klodolph wrote: post #44
kerkeslager wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one caveat: at some point, you reach a level of expertise such that you can evaluate tools for yourself, and don't need rules of thumb like this. At that point a mid-grade tool might make sense. I do have some expertise in some of the areas you mentioned, and disagree with you: Musical instruments: if you're starting off on guitar, get a used Yamaha for $80 and spend as much money as you can on lessons. It's bet…

$80 guitar and spending money on lessons—this goes against every piece of advice I’ve ever heard from a guitar teacher about buying your first guitar. That is, buy something good enough that it doesn’t make you miserable when you’re just starting out. A lot of $80 guitars are absolutely miserable, or will be miserable shortly after you take them home. > It's better to be a virtuoso with a Yamaha than to have a high-e…

> $80 guitar and spending money on lessons—this goes against every piece of advice I’ve ever heard from a guitar teacher about buying your first guitar.

Sure, if you're already taking lessons...

> Yamaha guitars start around $160, and they’re fantastic beginner instruments.

Yamaha guitars start around $160 new.

If you go to a local guitar shop they almost always have playable used guitars in the Guitar shops will almost never sell an unusable guitar in my experience (this is not true of consignment stores, thrift shops, or pawn shops).

Re: The worst tool for the job

#63

Post by cmehdy »

itsoktocry wrote: post #31
cmehdy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you don't know what the minimum viable is because you are a beginner and don't know yourself well in that field. For example, I started running with shoes that were somewhat fine for beginners when I would double-check online, but happened to have limitations that affected people who practice a lot, or people who don't practice properly, or in my case undiagnosed issues (hypermobility of the knee). In my ca…

> In my case getting those shoes with too much shock absorption was actually dangerous because it prevented the feedback loop of auto-correction from being built. This led to some habits that I didn't notice were bad and later on led to a pain in my knee that has, despite my best efforts and much rest over the last 8 years, entirely prevented me from the freedom of running. It seems like you're drawing a direct causa…

I can't be sure it wouldn't have arisen, but it has indeed been confirmed to me more than once (kinesiologist, physiotherapist) that the shoes had been problematic because they led to wrong posture correction and that led to a transfer of energy (post absorption) to the wrong places. There is more than one way to that things could have been better, for example I could have strengthened my muscles on either side of the knee to hold it in place or I could have practiced the correct posture without shoes, but ultimately the shoes were both a major part of the problem and also the only thing that I, as a beginner, was able to focus on and do something about.. until it was a bit too late, and I was going to clinics to figure out why that pain was present. Which is kind of my point: as a beginner you're not knowing yourself or the field well enough to know better.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#64

Post by klodolph »

itsoktocry wrote: post #37
3pt14159 wrote: post #20

I do this a different way. I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. Pen: Very expensive. Sunglasses: Very expensive. Phone: Very expensive. Laptop: Very expensive. Shoes / most clothing: Midrange, since they don't last long, but they're n…

> Sunglasses: Very expensive. This one is confusing. Sunglasses are 90% fashion. What exactly are you getting with an expensive pair? I take the opposite route. Cheap sunglasses that I'm unconcerned about dropping, sitting on, or leaving behind.

I have one pair of designer sunglasses that I picked up on sale. They are comfortable to the point that I can barely feel them. They also look really good.

I also have a ton of $10 sunglasses from street vendors and online stores.

For my taste, all the mid-range sunglasses are super boring and make you look boring. Great for going out and meeting other boring people. Everything cool is either some cheapo monstrosity that you find from a street vendor or online store for $10, or from a designer brand.

If you don’t care about fashion then go ahead and buy boring sunglasses.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#65

Post by klodolph »

gruez wrote: post #42
3pt14159 wrote: post #20

I do this a different way. I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. Pen: Very expensive. Sunglasses: Very expensive. Phone: Very expensive. Laptop: Very expensive. Shoes / most clothing: Midrange, since they don't last long, but they're n…

>I think about how much I'm going to use something and try my best to over-invest in what is typically cheap and could last years and under-invest (or avoid all together) in what is expensive or could last less than a year. [...] >Housing: Far cheaper than I could afford. Why? Isn't a house something that can last decades and is something you use every day?

Can last decades, or you might move. Your income might go up or it might go down. The house might appreciate in value or it might go down in value. If you have the best house you can afford, you’re “locked in” and might have to turn down otherwise exciting opportunities because they don’t pay you enough cash to make mortgage payments.

Plus, I know enough people that bought a big house, don’t use it, and just end up buying furniture for rooms they don’t use.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#66

Post by wink »

PaulHoule wrote: post #7
gk1 wrote: post #2

What a great principle. One of those things I've felt for a long time but never express so well as John did. This idea extends to many other things, like... sports equipment. Beginner runners/bikers/skateboarders/whatever will not really feel the difference between equipment that cost $100 and $1,000, so get the cheap one and use it to (its) death. If you're still into the sport by then, go ahead and get the nicer on…

I found a pretty big difference between a $20 tennis racket and a $60 racket. For one thing, any tennis racket is going to get loose if you play with it long enough. It cost more than $20 to redo the strings on a $20 tennis racket and $20 racket is going to send balls in totally the wrong direction in the next season.

But you already know this, so you've probably played for a while.

I think the meaning is if you start playing tennis, use the 20$ one. Then if you manage to wear it out, buy a good one. You shouldn't buy a 2nd 20$ one, ever.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#67

Post by klodolph »

kerkeslager wrote: post #62
klodolph wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$80 guitar and spending money on lessons—this goes against every piece of advice I’ve ever heard from a guitar teacher about buying your first guitar. That is, buy something good enough that it doesn’t make you miserable when you’re just starting out. A lot of $80 guitars are absolutely miserable, or will be miserable shortly after you take them home. > It's better to be a virtuoso with a Yamaha than to have a high-e…

> $80 guitar and spending money on lessons—this goes against every piece of advice I’ve ever heard from a guitar teacher about buying your first guitar. Sure, if you're already taking lessons... > Yamaha guitars start around $160, and they’re fantastic beginner instruments. Yamaha guitars start around $160 new . If you go to a local guitar shop they almost always have playable used guitars in the Guitar shops will al…

Beginners aren’t in a position to figure out the difference between a usable $80 guitar and a barely playable $80 guitar.

My experience with Guitar Center specifically is that at most stores, most of the cheap guitars on sale won’t be set up properly and some of them will be missing strings. Buying an $80 guitar from GC is a roll of the dice.

If you know what you are doing you can buy a guitar for $60 or $40 on Craigslist. Doesn’t mean that you have good odds as a novice.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#68

Post by schwartzworld »

gk1 wrote: post #2

What a great principle. One of those things I've felt for a long time but never express so well as John did. This idea extends to many other things, like... sports equipment. Beginner runners/bikers/skateboarders/whatever will not really feel the difference between equipment that cost $100 and $1,000, so get the cheap one and use it to (its) death. If you're still into the sport by then, go ahead and get the nicer on…

The problem with this is that we live in a world where there are versions of things so cheap is to be unusable. you don't need a top-of-the-line skateboard to learn how to skate, but it's much harder to learn on a Walmart board, if not impossible. Bearings that don't roll, wheels that get flat spots, decks that are made of particle board and have no pop and l plastic bushings are all a huge impediment to doing the most basic parts of skating.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#69

Post by nicoburns »

franciscop wrote: post #50
diarmuidc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but you have to use it long enough for the stings to get loose. What percentage of tennis racket purchases are used more than once?

A high one? All of the tennis rackets I've seen are used until they are torn, broken, and been repaired multiple times (at least the cords). True I'm from Spain, but it's rare that rackets are used only once.

You probably don't see the ones that aren't used. They're stuck in storage in people's houses.

Re: The worst tool for the job

#70

Post by dmurray »

eezurr wrote: post #35
klodolph wrote: post #4

Eh, something to be said for mid-range too. I have a 12v cordless drill. Ended up saving me tons of work over the years but by no means either the best or the worst. Musical instruments. The low-end ones tend to be true disasters. Mid-range CPUs and GPUs are wonderful. Kitchen mixers, knives, screwdrivers, soldering irons, drill presses, etc. Plenty of times the worst tool is so obviously terrible that you probably s…

On Bicycles: I've ridden cheap bikes ( $ Yesterday I went to my local Trek store and rode a $2500 bike for the first time, and it was a joy to ride. I didn't know gear changes could be so accurate/seamless/instant. First time I rode with disc brakes: I feel way more in control when I need to stop at high speed. The frame fit my body perfectly. Obviously the bike will wear down like cheaper bikes, but the difference i…

The bike will wear down more than cheaper bikes, unfortunately.

Chainrings, derailleurs, cassettes on mid-range bikes are made of lighter metals and to tighter tolerances than those on cheaper bikes. You'll replace them 3x as often and pay 3x as much for the parts, so maintenance is an order of magnitude more expensive per kilometre.

There are some exceptions: higher-quality bottom brackets seem to last longer, and on a cheap bike it may not be worth replacing them at all. Maybe wheel bearings too. And some basic services like chain lube are going to cost the same (whether you do it yourself or take it to a bike shop). But overall, the cost of maintenance goes up faster than the initial price of the bike.

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