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The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

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Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#61

Post by macspoofing »

stiray wrote: post #59
macspoofing wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a trope that every generation thinks the next generation is worse I also think you're looking at Yugoslavia with nostalgic rose colored glasses. I understand it because I grew up in communist Eastern Europe and I have similar feelings about life back then, but let's be clear, everything was fine as long as you charted the expected course and had no major aspirations. If you had any sort of ambition, political,…

We had 14 days of "war" and 19 killed and 182 wounded (official numbers - if you would took a book about history you would quite quickly figure out the war in Bosnia and Croatia was not due to change of system but due to cultural burden that was piling up for centuries). But I will not go down that political rabbit hole or classical fallacy that every generation thinks the next generation is worse - no, not everythin…

>We had 14 days of "war" and 19 killed and 182 wounded

You can't praise Yugoslavia, and then fall back on Slovenia when Yugoslav failures are mentioned.

>you would quite quickly figure out the war in Bosnia and Croatia was not due to change of system but due to cultural burden that was piling up for centuries

Both are true. I think there is universal agreement that Tito's death set up the conditions for the eventual civil war. And yes, it is also no coincidence that the civil war was along ethno-nationalistic lines.

>For my country, let me judge myself (as I have lived "there").

That's fair, but I'm not sure if anything I mentioned was actually untrue or even controversial .. even if I didn't grow up in Yugoslavia.

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#62

Post by deagle50 »

qpiox wrote: post #51
hh3k0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The introduction in the article is historically accurate, It is not. > compared to the countries behind the so called “iron curtain” that land was indeed different. Different, yes. Anti-authorian? A dictatorship? No.

You should look at this from the point of view of a simple citizen. The old government (king and families) capitulated and some fled. So the country was left on the mercy of the fascists. The people self-organized and self-liberated their country. Those who were the true leaders of this fight, got to lead the newly freed country in 1945. This is why people trusted all these leaders until they died. Tito was one of th…

This, until you needed $1m Dinar for an ice cream cone...

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#63

Post by rpiguy »

stiray wrote: post #47

One few little details about those times: official radio was broadcasting spectrum games at late night hours. You recorded the game and played it on computer. On flea markets you could buy latest games on packs of around 30 on one cassette. Yugoslavia had no copyright laws and breaking software protections became national sport. Computer magazines weren't full of reviews like today but rather full of electronics, sof…

The old abundance paradox. When you have everything you appreciate very little. We have had the same problem with the middle class here in the US for half a century, but our national culture had a strong focus on competition, winning, and money.

Those old values are fading for better or worse, and it will be interesting to see what happens next.

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#64

Post by the-dude »

rapsey wrote: post #57
bnt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends, us old people who saw both sides of the coin feel like today’s youth is crippled, they have no motive to study or be competitive, it’s mostly look pretty and be out with friends all day long.

Even the old Greeks complained how their youth is worse. It’s been quite a few generations since and we are still moving on.

Do you have a source for this? It is commonly attributed to Socrates, but this appears not to be true :

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#65

Post by m4rtink »

jankotek wrote: post #40

I started on "paper computer" [1]. Real hardware was crazy expensive, even ABC technical magazine was difficult to get. https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pap%C3%ADrov%C3%BD_po%C4%8D%...

WOW, that's very cool & clever way to turn a piece of paper + a human into an actual (if a little rudimentary) computer! :)

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#66

Post by Tsarbomb »

macspoofing wrote: post #53
stiray wrote: post #47

One few little details about those times: official radio was broadcasting spectrum games at late night hours. You recorded the game and played it on computer. On flea markets you could buy latest games on packs of around 30 on one cassette. Yugoslavia had no copyright laws and breaking software protections became national sport. Computer magazines weren't full of reviews like today but rather full of electronics, sof…

It is a trope that every generation thinks the next generation is worse I also think you're looking at Yugoslavia with nostalgic rose colored glasses. I understand it because I grew up in communist Eastern Europe and I have similar feelings about life back then, but let's be clear, everything was fine as long as you charted the expected course and had no major aspirations. If you had any sort of ambition, political,…

Egalitarian PC Revolution? What are you smoking? PCs were only available to the very wealthy and only the fortunate and privileged could hope to break into that industry. The entire space also quickly became a copyright and patent minefield. If you look at the USA, given it was the centre of the PC and Internet revolutions, access to a PC for the average household had really slow uptake. We in the West have a horrible habit of only looking at the upper echelons of our society to see how we are doing while ignoring that the average household is poor as hell.

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#68

Post by bitwize »

qpiox wrote: post #51
hh3k0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The introduction in the article is historically accurate, It is not. > compared to the countries behind the so called “iron curtain” that land was indeed different. Different, yes. Anti-authorian? A dictatorship? No.

You should look at this from the point of view of a simple citizen. The old government (king and families) capitulated and some fled. So the country was left on the mercy of the fascists. The people self-organized and self-liberated their country. Those who were the true leaders of this fight, got to lead the newly freed country in 1945. This is why people trusted all these leaders until they died. Tito was one of th…

Yes, it was a system that benefited the ordinary citizens, and all the people loved it. All decent people, anyway. If someone came up to criticize it, obviously they were a criminal, and the benevolent Tito, in his love and mercy, would have them locked away so as to prevent them from further damaging glorious Yugoslavian society and harming the people with their corruptive influence, and rehabilitate them into a better person. It was all for their own benefit, you see.

Communism always ends up the same way -- Soviet ties or not.

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#69

Post by macspoofing »

Tsarbomb wrote: post #66
macspoofing wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a trope that every generation thinks the next generation is worse I also think you're looking at Yugoslavia with nostalgic rose colored glasses. I understand it because I grew up in communist Eastern Europe and I have similar feelings about life back then, but let's be clear, everything was fine as long as you charted the expected course and had no major aspirations. If you had any sort of ambition, political,…

Egalitarian PC Revolution? What are you smoking? PCs were only available to the very wealthy and only the fortunate and privileged could hope to break into that industry. The entire space also quickly became a copyright and patent minefield. If you look at the USA, given it was the centre of the PC and Internet revolutions, access to a PC for the average household had really slow uptake. We in the West have a horribl…

>Egalitarian PC Revolution? What are you smoking? PCs were only available to the very wealthy and only the fortunate and privileged could hope to break into that industry.

Yes. Egalitarian. The prices collapsed from a level where only the rich and businesses could afford them, to a level where EVERYONE could afford them. And to be clear, there were hundreds of different kinds of personal computers at all kinds of price levels. For example, the Commodore64 was priced at a very accessible $595 ($1600 inflation adjusted) in 1982.

>The entire space also quickly became a copyright and patent minefield.

Whatever problems or issues you can point to, you cannot deny the reality of broad adoption of computers in the span of a decade, a trend which continued through the Internet and Mobile revolutions. The copyright and patent issues clearly were not a hindrance.

>We in the West have a horrible habit of only looking at the upper echelons of our society

What are you talking about? My parents, who were recent immigrants at the time, working menial low-wage jobs, bought a personal computer in late 80s for our household. Trust me, we were not in the 'upper echelons of society', unless the 'upper echelons of society' pick strawberries to supplement income from another minimum wage job.

Re: The Galaksija computer was a craze in 1980s Yugoslavia

#70

Post by Lio »

kjs3 wrote: post #11
paleotrope wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the Zilog Z80 require a massive industry to support it? That chip came out of engineers who left Intel.

Nothing like the industry now, but the Z-80 and contemporary chips (8085, 6502, 680x) came from companies (Intel, MOS, Motorola) that were as massive as the industry was at the time. The 6502 (Apple, Atari) came out of engineers who left Motorola.

The original ARM chip came from engineers at Acorn seeing first hand how few people were involved in the creation of the 6502 they were using in the BBC Micro and deciding they could have a go at a RISC chip themselves.

There's a lot to be said for having a go to see how far you can get.

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