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Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

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Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#101

Post by DoreenMichele »

dependenttypes wrote: post #100
DoreenMichele wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

decision to become pregnant is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given, etc. Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?"

> is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given If you do not have money for birth control then for sure you do not have enough money for a child. I suggest abstaining from sex in that case. > Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?" Not sure how this is relevant, we are living in…

Among other things, birth control is not infallible.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#102

Post by prerok »

ratsoman2 wrote: post #51
Fiveplus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a baby is such a crucial and important event in any woman's life that a mandated pre-delivery-full-pay leave seems like a viable mandated right I would whole-heartedly support.

As an employer, why would you choose to hire women who you knew you would have to pay a mandated pre-delivery-full-pay leave to as opposed to a man without that risk?

The pay during maternity leave is covered by the state. I am guessing this holds for all countries but I can only say for sure for my country.

It is somewhat annoying for the employer to "lose" the employee for a year but there is ample notice (eight months or so :) ) so the employer can prepare for the absence.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#103

Post by dependenttypes »

i_cannot_hack wrote: post #92
dependenttypes wrote: post #79

So both the taxpayer and the employer have to fund their decision to become pregnant, huh? This is quite sad, I am glad that I do not live in Australia, especically when combined with its politicians saying "genius" things such as https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema... , its new encryption law, and its porn censorship.

If the parents do not have the resources to give the child a stable and healthy upbringing (becouse you want to save money), it will lead to a much higher risk of destructive outcomes like poverty, disease and crime. All of which you will have to pay for later via your taxes, in one way or another. It's my firm belief that you are short-sighted in this regard, and that your way of prioritizing will lead to worse outc…

> If the parents do not have the resources to give the child a stable and healthy upbringing

... they should use birth control or abort.

> All of which you will have to pay for later via your taxes

This is true only for crime, but it should still be cheaper per person compared to the alternatives.

> Not to mention you seem a bit indifferent to the suffering of children

I simply do not consider the suffering of children above the suffering of adults - forcing taxpayers and employers to pay maternity leave causes that.

> our children

"our" children? I would gladly pay for my children if I had kids, but I do not.

> just like spending money to educate children in school is an investment for the future.

One that should be left up to the parents to pay for (I would also consider school to be child abuse but this is besides the point).

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#104

Post by seamyb88 »

dungdang wrote: post #99
motakraxxer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plot by patriarchy is not asking women to stop working during the third trimester. The plot is to ignore those needs and punish women who stop working by not paying them maternity leave or holding their pregnancy against them when they come back to the workforce.

that's not a plot. that's a refusal to let you externalize your baby costs to innocent people. do you want your company, which hired you to write code, to pay for your diapers too? what do they have to do with you having a baby? why are they paying you money when you are not working? why are they expected to spend more total money on you, than your equal who chose not to have a baby? baby -awesome. you were hired for…

> there should be no maternity leave. zero.

He said as he goose stepped into a wall

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#105

Post by dependenttypes »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #101
dependenttypes wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given If you do not have money for birth control then for sure you do not have enough money for a child. I suggest abstaining from sex in that case. > Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?" Not sure how this is relevant, we are living in…

Among other things, birth control is not infallible.

Sure but 1) The chance of birth control failing is quite small (most people who take maternity leave did not become pregnant due to birth control failing) and usually can be detected if it does. 2) Abortions exist. 3) The positives and the potential negatives of an action should always be evaluated and the people committing said action should assume full responsibility for it.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#106

Post by seamyb88 »

whotheffknows wrote: post #90
edaemon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most women's rights advocates asking for more maternity leave, not less?

I think the trick here is alot of people on Hacker News are not women's rights advocates. Hacker News is notoriously one of the most sexist places on earth. I'm a female reader, Staff Software Engineer and I've been reading hacker news everyday (literally) since sophomore yr of college in 2010. This place is sexist af.

Male reader. Agreed.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#107

Post by DoreenMichele »

dependenttypes wrote: post #105
DoreenMichele wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other things, birth control is not infallible.

Sure but 1) The chance of birth control failing is quite small (most people who take maternity leave did not become pregnant due to birth control failing) and usually can be detected if it does. 2) Abortions exist. 3) The positives and the potential negatives of an action should always be evaluated and the people committing said action should assume full responsibility for it.

1. It depends on the form of birth control. Fallibility varies widely from one form to another.

2. Last I checked, abortions are shockingly hard to come by in many parts of the US.

3. Women can be virtuously celibate and chaste and wind up pregnant due to being forcibly raped.

Sexual morality is and always has been a complicated matter. This won't be changing anytime soon.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#108

Post by i_cannot_hack »

dependenttypes wrote: post #103
i_cannot_hack wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the parents do not have the resources to give the child a stable and healthy upbringing (becouse you want to save money), it will lead to a much higher risk of destructive outcomes like poverty, disease and crime. All of which you will have to pay for later via your taxes, in one way or another. It's my firm belief that you are short-sighted in this regard, and that your way of prioritizing will lead to worse outc…

> If the parents do not have the resources to give the child a stable and healthy upbringing ... they should use birth control or abort. > All of which you will have to pay for later via your taxes This is true only for crime, but it should still be cheaper per person compared to the alternatives. > Not to mention you seem a bit indifferent to the suffering of children I simply do not consider the suffering of childr…

> [School] should be left up to the parents to pay for

So you would enjoy living in a society were the children of the poor enter adulthood illiterate and completely uneducated, without the basic life skills necessary in a modern society. I think our worldviews are simply too different for us to come to an understanding here. All I can say is that you present yourself as a very unsympathetic person.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#109

Post by akiselev »

dungdang wrote: post #99
motakraxxer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plot by patriarchy is not asking women to stop working during the third trimester. The plot is to ignore those needs and punish women who stop working by not paying them maternity leave or holding their pregnancy against them when they come back to the workforce.

that's not a plot. that's a refusal to let you externalize your baby costs to innocent people. do you want your company, which hired you to write code, to pay for your diapers too? what do they have to do with you having a baby? why are they paying you money when you are not working? why are they expected to spend more total money on you, than your equal who chose not to have a baby? baby -awesome. you were hired for…

> why are they expected to spend more total money on you, than your equal who chose not to have a baby?

Because if that's the way human beings behaved, our ancestors would have died out as a species hundred of thousands of years ago and you wouldn't exist. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but you must recognize why the vast majority of voters are not okay with jeopardizing our species to save a few tax dollars?

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#110

Post by dependenttypes »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #107
dependenttypes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but 1) The chance of birth control failing is quite small (most people who take maternity leave did not become pregnant due to birth control failing) and usually can be detected if it does. 2) Abortions exist. 3) The positives and the potential negatives of an action should always be evaluated and the people committing said action should assume full responsibility for it.

1. It depends on the form of birth control. Fallibility varies widely from one form to another. 2. Last I checked, abortions are shockingly hard to come by in many parts of the US. 3. Women can be virtuously celibate and chaste and wind up pregnant due to being forcibly raped. Sexual morality is and always has been a complicated matter. This won't be changing anytime soon.

> 3. Women can be virtuously celibate and chaste and wind up pregnant due to being forcibly raped.

Certainly but this is an extreme case that should be handled differently. How much % of the people getting paid a maternity leave do so due to rape?

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