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Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

wsj.com

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Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#61

Post by ancientworldnow »

paulie_a wrote: post #36
chmod600 wrote: post #14

What is the larger significance here? Does this mean the gun industry is struggling? Sounds unlikely given the spike in purchases. Maybe it's just another old company that once had a good reputation but has lost its way. PE probably involved. Or maybe there is some market shift. Like, fewer hunters purchasing lever actions and more urbanites buying semi-auto pistols.

Honestly no. If anything the gun industry holds a substantial bit of political power considering the average American doesn't even own a gun. Edit:. Touchy subject but it's a fact the average American doesn't own a gun. The political influence is substantial on the other hand. I'm not anti gun because it should be an inconsequential topic. It's like vegans had the big seat at the table.

30% of American adults own a gun and 43% live in a gun household [1] and only about 40% of Americans bother to vote in presidential elections. Gun owners are more political than non-owners [2] so it's not unlikely that half of all voters or more are gun owners or live in gun households. That's a significant political force.

Vegans, in contrast, make up around 0.4-3% of Americans depending on the poll [3].

[1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own...

[2] https://today.ku.edu/2018/08/21/gun-owners-are-more-active-p...

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#62

Post by topkai22 »

stickfigure wrote: post #50
zrobotics wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who owns a 64 panhead and owned a 72 ironhead (rebuilt both from parts): Harleys have almost always been inferior bikes that have a strange sort of charm. Realistically, they occupy the same place as Ural, outdated bikes that have appeal mostly for style. The last time that Harley had anything cutting-edge (ignoring Buell) was likely the knucklehead, which was developed in the 30s. $8k will buy yo…

REI, really? What are the superior competitors? And do you mean specifically the house-branded gear or the store as a whole? Genuinely curious, since I still shop there. Prices aren't the best but I like the selection and the return policy. Plus the salesdroids actually seem familiar with the gear.

I’m with you- REI does premium retail really well and that involves more then being just a brand. You can save money elsewhere for equivalent gear, but you won’t get the same service.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#63

Post by donw »

komali2 wrote: post #5
manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Sounds eerily similar to the Harley situation. I had the displeasure of renting a Harley something - street 500 or something along those lines - just to see what all the fuss was about. Seems much ado about nothing, why would I drop 8,000$ on a slab of iron, not even made in the USA anymore, when I could get twice the bike at half the weight for the same price from Suzuki?

Harley screwed themselves in a lot of different ways.

First, they fought to protect their market with tariffs on imported bikes -- okay, fair enough -- but then did absolutely nothing to either grow that market, or innovate on their products at all.

They just kept making the same bike, the same way, for a looooooooong time.

Harley's branding was 100% focused on the "60's Rebel". The Hells Angel, or the dentist that wanted to pretend he was.

The plethora of Japanese manufacturers, instead, worked to bring bikes to the masses. They made more reliable bikes, which were cheaper and easier to own, and marketed them to everybody. Dads. Moms. University students. Normal people, the kind that aren't keen on a Friday-night bar fight.

If Harley had been run by forward-thinking management, they would have worked to create affiliate brands aimed at a variety of different demographics, and really worked to innovate on their reliability and quality. Buell was an attempt at this, but it was too little, too late.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#64

Post by cptnapalm »

zrobotics wrote: post #39
komali2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds eerily similar to the Harley situation. I had the displeasure of renting a Harley something - street 500 or something along those lines - just to see what all the fuss was about. Seems much ado about nothing, why would I drop 8,000$ on a slab of iron, not even made in the USA anymore, when I could get twice the bike at half the weight for the same price from Suzuki?

Speaking as someone who owns a 64 panhead and owned a 72 ironhead (rebuilt both from parts): Harleys have almost always been inferior bikes that have a strange sort of charm. Realistically, they occupy the same place as Ural, outdated bikes that have appeal mostly for style. The last time that Harley had anything cutting-edge (ignoring Buell) was likely the knucklehead, which was developed in the 30s. $8k will buy yo…

I have a Ural :) Yes on the style part, but also yes on easy maintenance. Only real problem I've had is with the Brembo front brake.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#65

Post by zrobotics »

stickfigure wrote: post #50
zrobotics wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who owns a 64 panhead and owned a 72 ironhead (rebuilt both from parts): Harleys have almost always been inferior bikes that have a strange sort of charm. Realistically, they occupy the same place as Ural, outdated bikes that have appeal mostly for style. The last time that Harley had anything cutting-edge (ignoring Buell) was likely the knucklehead, which was developed in the 30s. $8k will buy yo…

REI, really? What are the superior competitors? And do you mean specifically the house-branded gear or the store as a whole? Genuinely curious, since I still shop there. Prices aren't the best but I like the selection and the return policy. Plus the salesdroids actually seem familiar with the gear.

They sell almost entirely 'outdoor apparel' that is geared at people wanting to wear the brand. REI used to loon almost like an army-surplus store rather than a clothing store, and the clothing was fully functional but unfashionable. Think 100% wool garments, the scratchy stuff that never wore out and was warmer wet than dry and more equipment than clothing.

My last REI hiking frame was a huge disappointment, it started to have welds cracking after 40 fairly easy miles. They do still have a decent warranty policy, but if I'm up in the wilderness that doesn't do me any good, I just want the same quality as they used to have (I.E. I have inherited gear that is still good after years of abuse, but have bought gear that has worn out in 3 years).

As far as superior competitors, unfortunately they are hard to find. I've had the best luck just searching for army-surplus equipment on ebay, as all the army surplus stores seem to have disappeared. But for apparel, definitely look for vintage Woolrich or wool milsurp. It's scratchy, but that's what undergarments are for, and when you accidentally slide down 200' of snow and get covered it's absolutely the best, none of the more modern gear I've tried even compares.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#66

Post by rspeele »

yaur wrote: post #35
WC3w6pXxgGd wrote: post #7

Surprising, since lockdowns and "protests" have greatly increased the rate of gun purchasing. In my state, all firearms were out of stock at the local shops for months.

They sell guns, but not anything that people are panic buying.

People would absolutely panic buy a Remington 870, if it was still good. A 12GA pump is a classic "don't know much about guns but want something to keep at home" purchase, and the 870 used to be THE industry standard. But they don't make 'em like they used to.

It doesn't help Remington that the quality guns they made for decades still exist on the secondary market and work just fine. So they are not only competing against their counterparts on the new gun market like Mossberg, but against their past, generally agreed to be better, output.

There hasn't been anything new, tech-wise, in guns for the past 40 years, so you can't beat the old guns with features like how a new phone has a faster processor and better camera. You have to stay on par in terms of quality and hope that people will prefer to buy new for the customer service, parts availability, and aftermarket support.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#67

Post by EdwardDiego »

rspeele wrote: post #66
yaur wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sell guns, but not anything that people are panic buying.

People would absolutely panic buy a Remington 870, if it was still good. A 12GA pump is a classic "don't know much about guns but want something to keep at home" purchase, and the 870 used to be THE industry standard. But they don't make 'em like they used to. It doesn't help Remington that the quality guns they made for decades still exist on the secondary market and work just fine. So they are not only competing ag…

Reminds me of when Suzuki switched manufacturing of their GN250 to Chinese factories, and suddenly second hand Japanese built Ginnies were attracting a premium over brand new models.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#68

Post by walrus01 »

manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Among people I know who track modern firearm technology I don't know a single person who would even contemplate buying a Remington. They are to modern guns what a Harley Davidson is to a modern motorcycle.

People who care about good tech and value are buying things like CZs, aero precision and Anderson AR10/15 lowers and uppers, etc. Even the canik pistol from turkey is remarkably good quality. Savage offers good value for traditional bolt action rifles that can be used for many purposes.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#69

Post by EdwardDiego »

refurb wrote: post #47
hellothree23 wrote: post #11

Savage 10s haven’t helped Remington much either...

Indeed. Savage Arms has been making high quality bolt actions that cost a lot less (~50% less) than Remington...for a while.

I've had my eye on their 110 Scout for a while.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#70

Post by ars »

throwaway-facts wrote: post #51
Shared404 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "protests" Pretty sure there are in fact protests. Regardless of your view on them, which I won't get into because this is HN and not Reddit.

I generally agree with the message of the protests but I feel like what's going on in Portland isn't being widely covered by the media. I am a long standing democrat for many years and it is becoming really difficult to stand behind the message when the activists have no agenda, want to continue doing this and there is no end in sight. I absolutely resent federal forces defending the courthouse. If protestors want to…

> I know it is pretty taboo to even be centrist around here

It is incredibly hard to be a centrist - both sides hate you and downvote your messages. It's constantly demoralizing and makes you question yourself.

But then you go out in the real world and see that most of the actual humans on the planet are centrist, and you feel better.

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