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Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

wsj.com

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Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#51

Post by throwaway-facts »

Shared404 wrote: post #19
WC3w6pXxgGd wrote: post #7

Surprising, since lockdowns and "protests" have greatly increased the rate of gun purchasing. In my state, all firearms were out of stock at the local shops for months.

> "protests" Pretty sure there are in fact protests. Regardless of your view on them, which I won't get into because this is HN and not Reddit.

I generally agree with the message of the protests but I feel like what's going on in Portland isn't being widely covered by the media.

I am a long standing democrat for many years and it is becoming really difficult to stand behind the message when the activists have no agenda, want to continue doing this and there is no end in sight.

I absolutely resent federal forces defending the courthouse. If protestors want to burn it down (there are many videos of them trying to), what do you do? May be we just allow these people to burn it down if that means it is going to bring change.

Then there is this: How do you defend protestors who want to overthrow the United States?

Proof: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/128451275993426739...

Had to create throwaway account just to hide my identity - I am kind of terrified of everything right now. Both left and right are going insane, truth is smeared and it is difficult to have a level headed, HN-like conversion which is what makes this place wonderful.

We need to be extremely vigilant. Please I beg every one of you. I know it is pretty taboo to even be centrist around here, my plea is to fact check everything. What I am seeing as a 10 year subscriber to NYT is simply no coverage of extreme violence and absurdity of demands these protestors are creating. I have and stand by a lot majority of protestors that are actually peaceful - like the NY City march and SF protests, but Portland is on another level. I no longer support it.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#52

Post by Animats »

yellowapple wrote: post #13

Can't tell from the article (due to the paywall), but any sign that the Navajo Nation might still buy 'em? I've heard before that they want to (specifically to address rampant unemployment/poverty among tribal members).

No, they decided not to buy, from the full article.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#53

Post by rhizome »

nappy wrote: post #41
manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Remington levered up and took on a ton of debt at the wrong time. The owners gambled and lost. It's a shame that people will lose their jobs over this.

Once private equity is in charge, people are going to lose their jobs anyway.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#54

Post by manfredo »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #22
manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Remington's 700 trigger mechanism has a design flaw that's caused dozens of deaths and hundreds of serious injuries. The company covered up the flaw and engaged in all sorts of shady business as opposed to issuing a massive recall. Remington's ammo on the other hand isn't bad and seems to be sold everywhere you can still buy bullets.

The supposed defect of the Remington 700 trigger is not nearly clear cut as it's portrayed. The supposed failures often could not be replicated, and many were found to have had their triggers adjusted out of normal tolerances or otherwise modified. As far as I know, an unmodified Remington 700 trigger has not been demonstrated to fire without actuating the trigger.

People often allege malfunction and sue gun manufacturers for accidental discharges resulting in death or injury, when in reality they mishandled a loaded gun and pulled the trigger.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#55

Post by rumanator »

joe-collins wrote: post #16
redis_mlc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing for Gibson Guitars, bought by KKR in 2013 and BK in 2018. Gibson Guitars was founded in 1894, but a lot of the guitars they make today don't work, and are way overpriced also. KKR renamed them to "Gibson Brands", so I guess some MBA with a PowerPoint thought related merchandise was more important than, you know, making guitars.

They... don't work? How exactly does such a straightforward physical item not work ?

There are some differences between a Stradivarius and a 30$ violin sold by Amazon, even though the 30$ violin also makes noise.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#56

Post by Shared404 »

throwaway-facts wrote: post #51
Shared404 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "protests" Pretty sure there are in fact protests. Regardless of your view on them, which I won't get into because this is HN and not Reddit.

I generally agree with the message of the protests but I feel like what's going on in Portland isn't being widely covered by the media. I am a long standing democrat for many years and it is becoming really difficult to stand behind the message when the activists have no agenda, want to continue doing this and there is no end in sight. I absolutely resent federal forces defending the courthouse. If protestors want to…

Thank you for verbalizing what I am unable to.

I personally believe that there need to be large changes across the structure of gov, but to the direction of less, and not more.

I have not followed the protests in Portland in depth, just enough to know that in at least portions (block? blocks?) the fed has completely reignited brutality in response to protests. Is there more info you have to available to share, or a good place to find unbiased info? I lurk Reddit, but that is very biased in either direction at any given thread.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#57

Post by LyndsySimon »

chmod600 wrote: post #14

What is the larger significance here? Does this mean the gun industry is struggling? Sounds unlikely given the spike in purchases. Maybe it's just another old company that once had a good reputation but has lost its way. PE probably involved. Or maybe there is some market shift. Like, fewer hunters purchasing lever actions and more urbanites buying semi-auto pistols.

Remington tried to pivot into the semi-auto handgun market with the R51. It’s a good design, but one that doesn’t mesh well with modern manufacturing techniques. They pumped a ton of money into getting it to market, and they just couldn’t make it profitable.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#58

Post by throwaway-facts »

Shared404 wrote: post #56
throwaway-facts wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with the message of the protests but I feel like what's going on in Portland isn't being widely covered by the media. I am a long standing democrat for many years and it is becoming really difficult to stand behind the message when the activists have no agenda, want to continue doing this and there is no end in sight. I absolutely resent federal forces defending the courthouse. If protestors want to…

Thank you for verbalizing what I am unable to. I personally believe that there need to be large changes across the structure of gov, but to the direction of less, and not more. I have not followed the protests in Portland in depth, just enough to know that in at least portions (block? blocks?) the fed has completely reignited brutality in response to protests. Is there more info you have to available to share, or a g…

The slight sliver of hope in NYTimes is that today they wrote a story that is somewhat backtracking from full force support of the protestors: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/us/protests-divisions-blm...

Quoting NYTimes:

> hurled an open pocketknife at the officers guarding the courthouse; they have used power tools, crowbars and bolt cutters to yank down a fence

Yep, this is going on definitely. And now we have some level of coverage.

Edit: removed the link to that twitter account, I checked the messages he is posting, totally insane. "Unknown liquid" hurled at cops, it's just water. Then the guy is talking about how masks are harmful to lungs. I am sorry.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#59

Post by donw »

sharken wrote: post #29
onetimemanytime wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. History repeats itself. As if these companies care about the brand reputation over decades, they just want to milk it and then sell it to idiots (public) that recognize the name. People are buying more guns than ever, so it was probably a planned bankruptcy

EDIT: Point taken with the downvotes. This feels very similar to the Intel story, except it seems that Intel is aware and will rectify the problem. But less gun companies overall is a Good Thing in my opinion.

Remington has been on the rocks for awhile. Low quality, high prices, and outdated technology. Today's buyer wants a lightened AR-15 with holographic sights, not grandpa's double-barrel shotgun.

I suspect you're being downvoted from the "less gun companies is a good thing" comment.

You would be surprised how popular shooting has become in the US, especially, over the last decade or so, and how diverse the gun community has become.

Not to mention how many new brands there are.

Twenty years ago, you'd walk into a gun shop, and it'd be... well, let's be kind and say "massively sketchy", with a lot of graying beards and a not-insignificant inventory of items with confederate branding.

Nowadays, that's not really the case in most places (which is good!). My favorite range has an espresso bar, and reminds me more of an early-stage WeWork than a gun range.

The median age has trended sharply downwards, and although this data isn't tracked, I strongly suspect that there are a lot of first-time gun owners as well.

Anecdotally, I'm sort of the "liberal gun guy" amongst my circle of friends, and people that I never thought would want to purchase a firearm have been reaching out to me for advice. Which usually starts with "don't buy a gun unless you plan to train with it"

Concerns over civil unrest have significantly factored into this, but there's also things like 3Gun[1][2] (think Ninja Warrior plus firearms) and cowboy action[3] (the same, but with old-timey firearms), which are massively popular.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPPIhfD5DF0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRBcQSLgl20 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPMH5RnTqBg

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#60

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

paulie_a wrote: post #36
chmod600 wrote: post #14

What is the larger significance here? Does this mean the gun industry is struggling? Sounds unlikely given the spike in purchases. Maybe it's just another old company that once had a good reputation but has lost its way. PE probably involved. Or maybe there is some market shift. Like, fewer hunters purchasing lever actions and more urbanites buying semi-auto pistols.

Honestly no. If anything the gun industry holds a substantial bit of political power considering the average American doesn't even own a gun. Edit:. Touchy subject but it's a fact the average American doesn't own a gun. The political influence is substantial on the other hand. I'm not anti gun because it should be an inconsequential topic. It's like vegans had the big seat at the table.

It's definitely touchy, but I think even in abstract it's a bit misleading to say in isolation that the average American doesn't own a gun. There are areas of the country where guns are rare, but there are also many areas where they're very normalized and most households have one.
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