Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

github.com

31–40 of 91 posts

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#31

Why this was this change ever touted as "innovative"?

Do you have a URL where this is touted as "innovative", since you used quote marks? Because I believe it was introduced as a way to be consistent with iOS and how users scroll using that OS. No one was filing patents on this one, however.

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#32

I miss when apps like this were built as preference panes. An app that does nothing but change an OS setting—and whose user interface exists purely to adjust those settings—does not belong in my applications folder, and certainly not in my menu bar. Such apps ought to live in System Preferences, alongside other, well, system preferences. And what do you know, Apple built a way for third party developers to do just th…

100% agreed but I finally gave in and bought Bartender to bring sanity to my menu bar and hide all of these menu bar apps. I was able to hide Notification Center as well which was a neat and unexpected bonus, but would still be better if I didn’t really need a 3rd party app to manage all these 3rd party apps that insist on living somewhere in the foreground and it’s either the menu bar or the Dock for them.

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#33
This is awesome! Thank you so much for making this!

Every day I have to relearn how to scroll when I switch back and forth from my Mac and Windows machines. It frustrated me that the scrolling direction of two completely different input mechanisms were tied together.

Thanks again!

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#34

Why this was this change ever touted as "innovative"?

Do you have a URL where this is touted as "innovative", since you used quote marks? Because I believe it was introduced as a way to be consistent with iOS and how users scroll using that OS. No one was filing patents on this one, however.

Quite right. It wasn't really touted as anything. It just showed up in OS X 10.7 in 2010.

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#35

I miss when apps like this were built as preference panes. An app that does nothing but change an OS setting—and whose user interface exists purely to adjust those settings—does not belong in my applications folder, and certainly not in my menu bar. Such apps ought to live in System Preferences, alongside other, well, system preferences. And what do you know, Apple built a way for third party developers to do just th…

Are OS X's metaphors slipping, or are they just being folded into how developers write their apps, or consumers use them? I ask because of the iOS Settings app: it used to be that was the place one changed the settings of an app, not in the app itself. IOW, kinda like the macOS System Preferences panes...sorta. Point is, it can appear that the OS settings pane/app/whatever is for stuff Apple controls, and the rest ha…

> I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that Apple has let the messaging get really confused.

Right—part of Apple's job is to create an environment where the "correct path" is clear and developers want to follow it. Either Apple used to do a better job, or else developers did.

And, consider:

• Apple encourages developers to distribute via the Mac App Store as much as possible.

• Preference Panes cannot be sold in the Mac App Store.

• In Catalina, all Safari extensions must be installed from the App Store as individual apps.

• New Notification Center widgets are always installed as applications. Old Dashboard widgets never were.

I would say that taken together, the clear implication from Apple is that apps are the way to go. And it all comes back to the Mac App Store, which Apple wants to push that at all costs. Evidently, they either actively don't want to sell non-apps in the store, or they don't care enough to build that functionality.

There are probably times when Apple's patterns are just wrong and the community coalesces on something better—I can't think of any, but it has probably happened, or will some day. But I do not think this is one of those times, because if you step back, using an app does not make objective sense.

(P.S. It's interesting to note that Apple's own iOS apps tend to have far fewer in-app preferences, in favor of sticking stuff in the Settings app.)

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#36
post #9

Thank you. I've been using Scroll Reverser[1], but it hasn't been updated to fully support Catalina (it works, but the installation process was not updated to request the permissions in Catalina). I'll check out UnnaturalScrollWheels to see if it's a good replacement. [1] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/

You're welcome! Scroll Reverser no longer working well in Catalina is one of the main reasons that led me to create my own solution to the problem.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#37

I miss when apps like this were built as preference panes. An app that does nothing but change an OS setting—and whose user interface exists purely to adjust those settings—does not belong in my applications folder, and certainly not in my menu bar. Such apps ought to live in System Preferences, alongside other, well, system preferences. And what do you know, Apple built a way for third party developers to do just th…

This is actually Apple's fault more than anyone. I was originally planning to release on the App Store but decided not to after thinking about the $100 a year fee to be in the developer program and the 30% cut Apple would take if it were paid, and that's assuming the app would be approved by Apple in the first place. Although I decided not to release on the App Store I want to keep the option open. Apps on the App Store need to be sandboxed, which means no preference pane.

I agree apps filling up the menu bar is annoying, so there is an option to hide it if you wish.

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#38
Disabling acceleration is a big feature here, again something that makes sense on a trackpad but does not on a scroll wheel. It's infuriating switching between Linux/Windows/macOS _with the same mouse_ and only macOS has acceleration. Logitech Options doesn't even give acceleration

Also along these lines of bizarre defaults, I don't remember how but I had to change key press settings to allow for repeated presses. Apparently the default behavior is to give you accent character options. Then from there I had to change the interval/initial timings to be closer to Linux/Windows as well. Of course now I'm paying the price with the dreaded repeat inputs on this keyboard

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#39
So I like Mac hardware and to this day for reasons I cannot fathom, I still consider the Macbook trackpad to be the only usable incarnation of this technology I've ever seen. This goes beyond hardware too as it seems like integration into the OS is a key factor. Touch pads still feel kludgy on Windows and Linux (to me at least). Even on Mac hardware.

But there are certain UX fails by Apple I cannot comprehend and this is one of them.

I remember when this changed. It was years ago now. Apple decided the previous way of doing things was unnatural and just reversed it. If you want it the "unnatural" way you could use a setting. But the inability to split how the trackpad worked and how a scroll wheel worked is nothing short of pigheadedness ("no, it's the users who are wrong" to paraphrase Principal Skkinner).

Sadly this isn't an isolated example.

The earlier iPads had an orientation lock physical switch on them. I love this feature. And then Apple decided this was "inconsistent" with the iPhone (which had no such switch) and removed it. I mean the switch was obviously still there but now it did something completely useless. I think it muted the iPad instead? If you wanted this you could just hold down the volume down button. Then they briefly added back the option of getting the old behaviour but that only lasted briefly before that option and ultimately the switch were entirely gone. I used the orientation lock all the time and I'm still dark about it.

Another: a Bluetooth keyboard or trackpad connected to the laptop by USB will automatically pair. Great feature. Compare this to the Bose headphones I have, which are a total nightmare as soon as you pair to more than one device to the point where I've installed homebrew packages and scripts to disconnect Bluetooth when I close the lid of my Macbook (who decided it was a good default to pair to a Macbook with the lid closed vs one with its lid open? I mean does anyone even use pairing to a closed Macbook?). The problem? There's a popup I need to dismiss saying "This trakcpad is now wirelessly connected to your computer". Great. I don't care. I don't ever want to see this message again. Is there an option for that? No!

I find full screen mode for apps great. I often have it set up so my IDE is one screen and I can swipe left and right between my main desktop and my IDE. The problem? If your mouse gets near the top of the screen a menu bar appears, often obscuring the top of your IDE so you have to walk this fine line between getting high enough on the screen but not too high.

I have a 32" 4K monitor. I'm fine with the menu being visible all the time to avoid this. Really. Why don't I have that option?

Years ago Chrome actually worked like that. Then it mysteriously disappeared. When I worked at Google I asked about this and was told something like it was considered a "bug" and it violated Apple's UI guidelines or something similar. So now we have the dumb version.

Yet another: if you have multiple monitors, one of them is the "main" display. It has the dock. If you hit the bottom of the screen on a different monitor the dock will move. You can't turn this "feature" off. The best you can do is put the dock somewhere else. I don't want the dock somewhere else.

What's really troubling about the last two is they really ignore the basic tenets of HCI in that the corners and edges of the screen are the easiest places to hit. Microsoft famously ignored this years ago when on Windows 9x the Start button was offset by a couple of pixels from the corner for no good reasons. No doubt some designer's opinionated sense of aesthetics.

So, rant aside, thanks for making this utility. I know there have been other solutions to this as well. Part of me still hopes Apple sees reason and reverses their dumb decisions here.

Re: Show HN: UnnaturalScrollWheels – Better scroll wheel settings for macOS

#40

I miss when apps like this were built as preference panes. An app that does nothing but change an OS setting—and whose user interface exists purely to adjust those settings—does not belong in my applications folder, and certainly not in my menu bar. Such apps ought to live in System Preferences, alongside other, well, system preferences. And what do you know, Apple built a way for third party developers to do just th…

I agree but I think the issue here is complexity. This app is built with Swift, probably because most developers prefer high-level languages like that over system-level languages like ObjectiveC. Unfortunately, OS vendors typically don’t provide interfaces for high-level languages in their OS machinery unless strictly necessary. Can you actually write a Preferences panel in Swift? I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer were “nope, Obj-C only”.

It’s not even an Apple thing, Windows has been the same for a very long time - remember how browser extensions “exploded” when Mozilla made it possible to write them in JS? IE forced you to C++, dramatically restricting the number of developers.

Post reply on HN