Montreal is taxing churches (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#291

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 4:04 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

Only a small percentage of church’s budget goes to charity.

https://galileounchained.com/2012/05/14/are-churches-more-li...

The church is in only interested in keeping its own institution alive. If you ask the majority of Christians - who overwhelmingly went for a candidate who does not display Christian values - it’s because he furthered their agenda.

The church has hidden and continues to hide child molestation by their leaders.

They are pushing to reopen during Covid putting their congregations in danger - who are statistically older.

Churches are also one of the most segregated parts of society.

They consistently oppose universal healthcare.

One survey showed that 22% of Christians still believe that interracial marriage is a sin.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#292

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #267

james412 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are we supposed to be looking at here?

Russian Orthodox priests in Romania and Bulgaria are absolutely terrible. They prey on a gullible and very poor population while living in opulence and flaunting their wealth. In Bucharest, Romania, they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros. https://balkaninsight.com/2018/11/23/heavy-price-tag-oversha... 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to…

How is that any different than America where preachers tell their poorest congregants that they should give 10% of their income before they pay their bills? If they come up short on their bills are short, “God will provide”?

Some are even willing to use credit cards to pay their tithes if they come up short.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#293

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #292

jacquesm wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian Orthodox priests in Romania and Bulgaria are absolutely terrible. They prey on a gullible and very poor population while living in opulence and flaunting their wealth. In Bucharest, Romania, they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros. https://balkaninsight.com/2018/11/23/heavy-price-tag-oversha... 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to…

How is that any different than America where preachers tell their poorest congregants that they should give 10% of their income before they pay their bills? If they come up short on their bills are short, “God will provide”? Some are even willing to use credit cards to pay their tithes if they come up short.

It is quite similar.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#294

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #212

threatofrain wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem I see is that church is also leading the cause to marginalize gay people from society by force of government. There's a reason why during the Bush presidential candidacy a big news item was the push for a Constitutional amendment to exclude gay marriage. The Mormon church spent a great amount of money advertising in California with regards to how dangerous gay people are to kids. People talk about "intole…

> church is also leading the cause to marginalize gay people This might be the case of some church organizations (specifically those that make it a point to be politically active), but claiming that all churches do this, or even a majority of them, is just not accurate - guilt by association. I grew up in Catholic schools, and almost every priest that taught us was incredibly kind and open to gays. These priests are…

[deleted]

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#295

Post by dang » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

ranman wrote: post #97

Everyone commenting about how great churches are? You’re absolutely delusional. The gross majority of these organizations are bigoted and racist. I grew up in the southern United States and experienced all manner of churches. I don’t care how great your church is. Give me 20 minutes with your congregation and I’ll find the racists and bigots. These assholes promote terrible mental and physical health. They don’t beli…

Religious flamewar is not allowed on HN. It's never new, never interesting, and never kind. Please don't post like this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#296

Post by stjohnswarts » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

I understand they are meeting places for the community but the fact they they worship imaginary beings and that makes them special is what gets people riled up. I understand worshiping and not worshiping is a critical element in tolerant human society, even in the 21st century that is supposedly made of science and enlightenment. What people really get angry with is when they get mixed up in politics and monetary activities promoting political agendas and want to maintain their tax exempt status even though they claim to be nonpartisan groups.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#297

Post by churchgoer » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

I would say many churches in the US have now become glorified concerts [1].

Great production, acoustics, cameramen, and often to peddle and push the organizers products [2] (books, DVD's, etc)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjpWTsh07k0 [2] https://store.harvest.org/

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#298

Post by stjohnswarts » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #284

earthscienceman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an important point. It's going to go against the grain at hackernews, but taxing churches in the US is a terrible idea. If you wanted to further the divide between the "liberal city"/"conservative rural" American cultures, this would be a great way to do it. If you grew up in a rural area of the flyover states you would know that churches form the backbone of these rural communities. For example, the chu…

>It's going to go against the grain at hackernews I really wish people didn't do this. I agree with your post, but it's preemptively combative to make the first thing you say, "you're going to disagree with me." It makes you sound like you're trying to present yourself as an underdog in the face of a monolithic enemy.

What he's saying is true though, there is no reason to sweep it under the rug because it hurts a few feelings.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#299

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

enaaem wrote: post #113

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could earmark the collected taxes for creating secular alternatives? Or maybe create a system where people don't have to rely on churches and rich people for charity.

Churches provide much more than just money. Solace, peace, love, community etc... I'd say this is more important than money. I used to be a Christian. There are a lot of bad sides of Christianity and that is why I left. But it does help many people and after studying Buddhism I understand how the right approach to Christianity can bring a lot of peace to believers: Unconditional love. Many people grew up made to feel…

Churches provide love? As long as you are one of “them”. Go into your typical small southern church if you and your spouse are different races - many church goers still believe that “miscegenation” is a sin - including Bob Jones University.

I wonder how many churches would be as “loving” if “Adam and Steve” walked in?

https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/deja-vu-all-over...

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#300

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

wolfhumble wrote: post #211

rational_indian wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel these things should exist without God. That is, they can be helpful to non-believers too. But I am having a hard time creating secular versions of these. I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that God here is an abstract entity with whom the believer communicates but no such abstract entity exists for non-believers (duh!). May be some form of general artificial intelligence can fulfil this role in t…

The purpose of being a Christian is to love God and to love your neighbour as yourself. In if you wonder how far the love of your neighbour stretches, the goalpost has ben set at the very end: Love your enemies.[See: Mark 12:30-31 and Matthew 5:44] And this follows and is natural because God is LOVE [1 John 4:7-21]. I have a hard time believing AI will fulfil this role. For would it be optimized for gains here and no…

> The purpose of being a Christian is to love God and to love your neighbour as yourself.

What if your neighbor was a child with two dads?

What if they looked like they were “illegals”.

The majority of Christians support politicians who whether you agree with their politics or not definitely don’t “display Christian values”.

Do you really wonder why so many people see the entire Christian establishment as hypocrites?

You can quote scripture or we can look at reality.