Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#41

Post by treeman79 »

burfog wrote: post #38
swsieber wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But moreso in teaching right now: > In 1988, a teacher most commonly had 15 years of experience. Less than three decades later, that number had fallen to just three years leading a classroom.

Teacher burn-out is mostly ignored because fixing it would require undoing some very deliberate changes, like keeping bad kids in school and even in normal classrooms. We'd have to empower teachers to expel kids who refuse to be students.

Wife has been bitten, stabbed, attacked by students many times. Nothing is ever done. Usually a small number of kids that ruin everything for the rest.

  Many schools are a blame teachers culture.
She’s been at this long enough many of the trouble makers have grown and are in jail, missing, or dead.

Turns out ignoring bad behavior doesn’t work.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#42

Post by jkoudys »

dataduck wrote: post #40
nickff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with applying your priorities (for the idealists) is that the misbehaving kids tend to come from the 'victimized' groups. This means that by enforcing clasroom discipline, they (often) feel that they are reinforcing the patriarchy, white supremacy, or other evil side.

That's because it's the same thing. Creating the level of order necessary for learning (or any other civilized behaviour) is the entirety of what "Patriarchy" really means. White supremacy recently got redefined to include things like punctuality and objectivity, which is even more on the nose.

I won't dispute that "patriarchy" (or even white supremecy) are forms of order, but they're order built by forcing roles on people based on gender and race. Anyone wrapping punctuality up into that is enforcing such a system by assigning someone's station based on race, not fighting against it.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#43

Post by d0mine »

adamsea wrote: post #15
adamsea wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to long-term life outcomes, that's an interesting question. It'd be cool to see some studies. I don't disagree with your implication that the teaching process the author describe might short-change learning the core skills/knowledge being taught in a course. But I would think that depends on the application of the technique and doesn't stem from the nature of the technique itself. Also lets' not forget t…

LOL sorry for the length on this comment : )

You should have added at the end: "generated by GPT-3" (signal to noise ratio is close to zero).

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#44

Post by giantg2 »

dataduck wrote: post #40
nickff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with applying your priorities (for the idealists) is that the misbehaving kids tend to come from the 'victimized' groups. This means that by enforcing clasroom discipline, they (often) feel that they are reinforcing the patriarchy, white supremacy, or other evil side.

That's because it's the same thing. Creating the level of order necessary for learning (or any other civilized behaviour) is the entirety of what "Patriarchy" really means. White supremacy recently got redefined to include things like punctuality and objectivity, which is even more on the nose.

Is this sarcasm? Being punctual or object is now racist?

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#45

Post by giantg2 »

treeman79 wrote: post #41
burfog wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teacher burn-out is mostly ignored because fixing it would require undoing some very deliberate changes, like keeping bad kids in school and even in normal classrooms. We'd have to empower teachers to expel kids who refuse to be students.

Wife has been bitten, stabbed, attacked by students many times. Nothing is ever done. Usually a small number of kids that ruin everything for the rest. Many schools are a blame teachers culture. She’s been at this long enough many of the trouble makers have grown and are in jail, missing, or dead. Turns out ignoring bad behavior doesn’t work.

In our state, that can be a felony aggravated assault charge (assuming they meet mens rea and charges are pressed).

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#46

Post by hevelvarik »

giantg2 wrote: post #44
dataduck wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it's the same thing. Creating the level of order necessary for learning (or any other civilized behaviour) is the entirety of what "Patriarchy" really means. White supremacy recently got redefined to include things like punctuality and objectivity, which is even more on the nose.

Is this sarcasm? Being punctual or object is now racist?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-sun.com/news/1149007/af...

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#47

Post by ed25519FUUU »

catalogia wrote: post #33
danielheath wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the specialised help isn’t just worse facilities somewhere else, maybe (or maybe not). In practice - who is going to ensure the other facilities are of a good standard? The abusive parents? If you don’t help that kid, the other 30 will spend their whole lives sharing a society with an adult who didn’t get help. That’s an unfair drain on their life too (increased crime, policing costs, etc). Putting the disru…

One of my aunts is a such a specialized teacher; her program is called "emotional support" or something to that effect. From what I understand it's a classroom in the same school building and the students sent to her classroom are troubled in frequently very sad ways which she won't discuss in specifics. She's accountable to the same principle that the normal teachers are. From what I know of this sort of program, it…

That’s good work your aunt is doing. Necessary work indeed, but unfortunately not academic work.

For these students who are deeply troubled, there must be healing before there can really be learning.

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#49

Post by d0mine »

heimatau wrote: post #36
082349872349872 wrote: post #34

Managing behaviour in a mid-80's soviet classroom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT9VBW87QXw Note the rigid uniformity, and how students are expected to stand when giving answers. It may also be a good example of the extent to which academically strong students were dragged down by their peers? (The whole movie is subversive in certain ways. I understand soviet children were indoctrinated to be helpful to adults, b…

This video has edited the children's mouths and the teachers. This is an intentional edit when they speak. It's really trippy to watch. Because it's fairly good in some instances but...also terrifying.

The grandparent comment is trolling. The video is not a documentary (there is an innocent explanation of why the English part is edited) and the comment's text is just political jokes from 80s (I've heard somewhere that CIA takes credit for many jokes of that time).

Re: Teaching isn’t about managing behavior

#50

Post by 082349872349872 »

d0mine wrote: post #49
heimatau wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video has edited the children's mouths and the teachers. This is an intentional edit when they speak. It's really trippy to watch. Because it's fairly good in some instances but...also terrifying.

The grandparent comment is trolling. The video is not a documentary (there is an innocent explanation of why the English part is edited) and the comment's text is just political jokes from 80s (I've heard somewhere that CIA takes credit for many jokes of that time).

Trolling? The first part specifically stated it was a movie; I'm not sure what gave the idea it might have been a documentary. The joke is to explain why the other students were prompting Fima — a behaviour that was strongly discouraged in my western schools.

Of course I'd recommend watching the whole thing (or even the Alisa cartoon), for good examples of non-western juvenile SF, but in this case I was deliberately trying to show an example of non-western classroom behaviour management.

It may not have been entirely realistic, but judging from the nostalgic comments I've seen, it was not so unrealistic that students at the time it was aired found it ludicrous.

(counterargument: Friends — has many fans, but just how did NY baristas afford apartments like those?)

Post reply on HN