Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You should see some Soviet community centers before thinking they can replace anything The concept was good and they did work. In many towns, it's usually the only place where you could run cultural evens,some more important community gatherings and so on. What did happen once the Soviet occupation ended, was the lack of funding of these places. The town I grew up in, 15k population and the culture center large enou…
Churches in USA are not nearly the same as in most other countries. They are funded bottom up and also have to survive by serving their community well. If you need to ask for some community center funded from some abstract government, you don't have the local community, at the first place.
Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
231–240 of 335 posts
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#232The issue with this is always the same: which taxes ddo you want them to pay? Since most churches don't make a profit in the strict accounting sense, their won't be much Corp tax. And (AFAIK) they already pay payroll taxes (the main place church money. You could maybe tighten that up and make sure everyone is declaring benefits (use of the private jet) properly. But the USA just made that whole mess much more generou…
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
We already have secular alternatives, state welfare in many countries. A worse value for money system would be hard to imagine, populated with clock watching, work-to-rule types who actively use bureaucracy to avoid work.
So your telling me that churches are value for money? Could you give an example of one of these state welfare alternatives?
Incredible value for money - 90% of the services provided by our local church are staffed by unpaid volunteers who go above and beyond.
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#234Slightly off topic but I think it would be interesting to observe the German example as I think it's a good "fair" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany " The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public law may formally declare their wish to leave…
In a way there is the irony of atheists providing support for churches, but it's just one of the ways the democracy fails with majority rules (55% religious vote that non-religious people pay taxes for churches) and governments as immoral institutions that exist to rule over people, not to care about them.
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you only tax profits? If a church isn't making any, then there'd be nothing to tax?
I have been on a budget committee for a Methodist church. There is no profit, no money left over the next year, the largest expense is the pastor who is an employee (50k per yr in this case). Mega-churches might have money left over but by law they are supposed to spend their money as their nonprofit charter says or they could get audited by the State and fined or have their charter terminated.
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1366/0/uploads/posts...
Let's just say that not every church is the same as your Methodist church.
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#236Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…
> where people connect with the spiritual world In the USA, this is quickly becoming an obsolete understanding of religion. Regular church attendance is down from 70% to just over 50% in the last 20 years, according to Gallup. People are leaving the churches. The real question is what will replace them. If people need community, build community centers. There are other solutions that do not rely on continuing to prov…
Community centres are an order of magnitude more expensive than providing tax breaks to churches.
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#237Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…
They also spend a lot of money and effort on promoting their own religion and interests. They could easily create subcharities that are seperate entities designed to do the charitable work while being taxed on their non charitable areas.
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here in USA. Oldest churches are from the 4th century elsewhere. For the record: I don't think that priests should be able to buy $50M jets or keep 40% of total land of x country tax free, but they should not be forced to sell buildings because property tax is too high.
edit: got it wrong as per below comment
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Churches in USA are not nearly the same as in most other countries. They are funded bottom up and also have to survive by serving their community well. If you need to ask for some community center funded from some abstract government, you don't have the local community, at the first place.
I can't imagine your model working for any town/city except the very smallest ones or those inhabited by rich people only: to have an independent building,where the community could do whatever they think is right for them requires capital and some sort of management. So if it's a small village in the middle of nowhere, building something is probably realistic,but what about a few thousand people town? You'd need a pi…
Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> Don't you only tax profits? If a church isn't making any, then there'd be nothing to tax? Land and buildings for one could be taxed. Churches bought or were given land ages ago, before there was a Manhattan or Boston, as we today know it. Go ahead and pay property tax on land worth $250 Million when you barely make income to keep the lights on.
A solution to this is to give back the land to the local city and have it handled as cultural heritage, with an authorization to practice religious activities at specific times, but it’s governed by local administration overall. That’s how some cathedrals are managed in europe for instance.