US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning • Hacker News Board

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#71

Post by 0xffff2 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

SeanLuke wrote: post #38

fortran77 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see a two-part program 1. No more government-backed Student Loans. (Tuition would drop like a rock.) 2. Build many more free/cheap community colleges and make that much more accessible to everyone.

Neither of these would be as disruptive as: 3. Student loans no longer survive bankruptcy.

Wouldn't it make financial sense for the great majority of people to take as many loans as possible and then immediately declare bankruptcy the day after graduating? Most people don't have any meaningful assets at the end of university, so bankruptcy would be about as painless as it's possible for a bankruptcy can be.

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#72

Post by mdavis6890 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

This problem is not complicated. If students don't like the fees - don't go to school there! A little more price-shopping in higher education would go a long way toward reducing the tuition.

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#73

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

melq wrote: post #47

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community colleges don’t offer much value. Even a few hundred dollars is way over priced because the degree won’t open hiring doors except in an extremely narrow set of jobs, like nursing and related care-giving - which would be better off as a standalone trade school. The value of a college degree is networking and the brand name recognition that the university has, which opens doors when your resume is churning thr…

Community colleges offer value to people like myself, who for whatever reason did not succeed in high school and would have no other access to higher education (and perhaps couldn't afford it even if they did). In my case, a few semesters of good grades allowed me to transfer to a state university that I was previously rejected from, and with a scholarship that allowed me to be able to afford it in the first place. I…

That’s a valid point. If you can use the community college to transfer to a school with a brand name, it can help a wider variety of people be able to get to that brand name school.

My comment is only in reference to fully completing your degree and getting a diploma that goes on your resume from a community college. You’re better off skipping college and going straight to work in that scenario.

Where my family is from in the Midwest, this is very common. People who get paid more and rise to management jobs in the local blue collar workforce are the ones who just start in the stockroom or doing admin work right out of high school (or otherwise make careers in factory work, trades like welding or go to the military).

They make more money and have higher ranks than people with community college degrees working the same jobs because they have so much lead time in years of experience, while the positions rarely if ever need or care about college degrees.

Meanwhile, other than specific trades which are basically only nursing and elder care, community college grads cannot compete with state school grads for positions that do require degrees, like work in local government, upper positions in law enforcement, teaching at local schools, etc. Community college will never get you those jobs.

I’ve seen a lot of people banking on community college degrees opening doors for them thinking it’s the same as a state school degree but lets you save money & live at home. They end up still with small amounts of debt and absolutely nothing to show for it job-wise.

Really the only exception is if you transfer to a brand name school and you can ensure the degree you’ll have carries brand name signalling.

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#74

Post by alpineidyll3 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 2:51 AM UTC

edgefield0 wrote: post #5

code4tee wrote: post #3

The Pandora’s box here is that far too little of these “fees” actually went to in-person instruction vs. bloated admin and other things not directly linked to core educational activities. Unless universities slash those bloated admin and other costs then they’re not really in a position to be giving everyone a “remote learning” discount.

These fees aren't for bloated admin. They support resources like the library, general student use fitness facilities, techology, and other student focused items. I get why students want to stop paying these fees during the pandemic since they can't use many of the resources. The issue is that most of the costs for these resources are fixed, mainly personnel and facilities. If you cut the fees, the university would ha…

With all due respect, I don't think you've seen the finances of a the typical private US University. Admin spending has grown geometrically. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureau...

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#75

Post by iso1210 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 12:53 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #16

boromi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the justification and are people accepting this increase

Because remote classes have higher costs. It's always been that way.

A webcam is a higher cost than maintaining a 150 seat lecture theatre?

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#76

Post by iso1210 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

mdavis6890 wrote: post #72

This problem is not complicated. If students don't like the fees - don't go to school there! A little more price-shopping in higher education would go a long way toward reducing the tuition.

Many career paths have gatekeepers who expect new entrants to follow same path as they had 20 years ago (and the generation or two before that), which means alumni from specific schools will get the advantages, not because of any actual different in the quality of the education, but because of bias - concious and unconcious.

Re: US universities under pressure to cut fees because of remote learning

#77

Post by mdavis6890 » Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

iso1210 wrote: post #76

mdavis6890 wrote: post #72

This problem is not complicated. If students don't like the fees - don't go to school there! A little more price-shopping in higher education would go a long way toward reducing the tuition.

Many career paths have gatekeepers who expect new entrants to follow same path as they had 20 years ago (and the generation or two before that), which means alumni from specific schools will get the advantages, not because of any actual different in the quality of the education, but because of bias - concious and unconcious.

Companies who have gatekeepers that bias toward (or away from) certain groups of people will tend to perform more poorly than peer companies that don't. They will pay more for similar performance, or fail to hire better qualified candidates. This is not perfect, and takes a lot of time to play out - but it does play out eventually.

Sometimes you have to wait for those gatekeepers to retire, so it might take a generation, but it will happen over time. Sometimes it can happen much more rapidly due to innovation and new industries replacing old very quickly.

In the meantime, focusing on acquiring useful skills as cheaply and efficiently as possible is a winning proposition. Much more likely to be winning than spending a whole bunch more money on a less valuable educational product.