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LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

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Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#321

Post by yaktubi »

quickthrowman wrote: post #276
yaktubi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of what you’re saying, but the comment I reply to says it “harms noone.” I am saying it does harm people. To be frank, I have taken a decent amount of LSD in teenage years and suffer permanent effects from it (all mental stuff like anxiety and paranoia). Granted some of it was probably made in someone’s garage (legal stuff could have some sort of standards). But still, LSD is dangerous and point bein…

> To be frank, I have taken a decent amount of LSD in teenage years and suffer permanent effects from it (all mental stuff like anxiety and paranoia). What proof do you have that your anxiety and paranoia are caused by your teenage LSD intake? There are plenty of people who have issues with anxiety and paranoia that have never taken drugs. Consider that 70-90% of schizophrenics are tobacco users, and most started you…

I had a bad trip and afterward I had anxiety. No anxiety before then.

I don’t have “Anxiety” requiring meds and such—the effects taper off over the years.

Believe me, I know the effects I felt and what it did to me—statistics and external “scientific proof” are not required.

Also, true there are many ways to manipulate people. It’s what you can make them do while they are on LSD that is scary. If you try LSD you will know what I mean—you could walk into a train without hesitation or fear. At least if the other methods are used to manipulate people their underlying emotions, hesitations, and consciousness is intact.

Again, I agree certain drugs should be legalized. And perhaps LSD can be therapeutic in a good way. But, it is also very dangerous stuff—more so than other drugs.

That is my opinion and not based on rigorous research. But I have done a lot of drugs in my day—and I can say if I went back in time I still would have done the natural stuff (mushrooms, cannabis) but never would touch the man-made chemicals.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#322

Post by _bohm »

kitteh wrote: post #138
totony wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottler usually has drawings and cutoff that make if very easy to recognize though.

There is a famous story of how the album from Plastikman (Richie Hawtin) had a blotter paper album cover that was perforated landed someone in jail because they thought it was LSD. The father of the son arrested contacted the label (novamute I think?) and they shipped another copy to the law enforcement agency to explain. Sheet One is the title of it, not in a position to share the URL but please take a look. Great a…

link for the curious

http://music.hyperreal.org/library/publicity/plastikman/shee...

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#323

Post by samus »

yaktubi wrote: post #193
worldsayshi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

Not sure I’d agree with “harms noone.” I have taken LSD and easily walk in the middle of the road with no cause for concern. Imagine a child accidentally eating some of it, etc. Could be worse than a loaded gun. I’m all for legalizing natural stuff (mushrooms, cannabis, even coca plants) but once chemists start concentrating things or turning them into droplets it becomes extremely dangerous. For instance, mushrooms…

Replace LSD in your argument with "alcohol", "bleach", "nailpolish remover", "cigarettes" or any other dangerous stuff you can find in the household that are supposed to be locked away when children are around. Yes, most of these are smelly, but toddlers can be too curious for their own good and are not that discerning for bad tastes yet.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#324

Post by yareally »

nearbuy wrote: post #318
yareally wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Presumably they aren't dumping beyond the legal limits. That's how our system works." They have and probably still do though[1]. Lived only a couple hours from the location of the film and my wife grew up in a city on the Ohio River they were dumping chemicals into. Was in the local paper here almost weekly during the late 90s and early 00s. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Waters_(2019_film)

That says they were dumping. It doesn't say they were breaking any government regulations. In fact, it sounds like the government was lacking regulations on PFOA.

Sure, only because the chemicals weren't regulated yet by the government (and they fought as hard as they could to keep that from happening). Funny enough, DuPont actually had its own regulations for dumping such chemicals and knowingly violated them (which became the cornerstone for the class action lawsuits against them).

That said, there's plenty of cases of illegal dumping out there with chemicals that are regulated.

For example: https://apnews.com/9717f8be97db4944a825088dc5eee379/US-prose...

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#325

Post by 8note »

grayhatter wrote: post #268
parineum wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply. The laws prevent relying of the police in protecting your business with violence. The law creates jobs where violent people excel but those same violent people would not necessarily be violent without it, they may also be really good pianists, it just doesn't pay as well. If you pass that law kn…

> The laws prevent relying of the police in protecting your business with violence. The law creates jobs where violent people excel but those same violent people would not necessarily be violent without it, they may also be really good pianists, it just doesn't pay as well. 100% agreed. > If you pass that law knowing full well that it will create a violent black market, you certainly are responsible when it does. I'm…

At the time of beginning the war on drugs, there was already examples to take from prohibition.

This calculation seems negligent. Like, I could shoot you in the face, and it wouldnt be my responsibility if you died. I could only know that it's a possibility that you could die, not that you would definitely die

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#326

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

mistermann wrote: post #244
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO, yes, because there is nothing holding the country together besides the perception that the US constitution protects & ensures our freedom. What holds the country together is a lot of people have a lot to lose. > And LSD and other psychedelics definitely make you rethink the validity of government, period. Let alone the efficacy of the powers that be to ensure safety and prosperity But this is just the crux of…

>> IMO, yes, because there is nothing holding the country together besides the perception that the US constitution protects & ensures our freedom. > What holds the country together is a lot of people have a lot to lose. There are many things that "hold a country together" - some of them are known (here we have two examples), and others are unknown. > it is an illusory experience that has some impact on the user. It i…

> There are many things that "hold a country together" - some of them are known (here we have two examples), and others are unknown.

Exactly - that's a far cry from your claim. It's likely that the two reasons we posited on their own are meaningless.

> It is surely illusory to a very large degree, but "what it is", really, is far beyond mankind's ability to judge such things.

And yet in this very thread claims and judgements are made how it can topple governments, makes free thinkers, is the panacea to everything, just like weed cures cancer and saints cured the sick. How the government suppresses it because it will hurt those in power and prevent the utopian LSD world that is clamored for.

It borders on religious fanaticism - plenty of drugs and visions lead to jihad as much as kindness and love.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#327

Post by abnry »

worldsayshi wrote: post #103
kitteh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend of a friend got caught with two sheets in the 90s and I think he got 20 years for each one. Downstate Illinois. My recollection was the weight of the blotter paper was considered as the drug itself and that easily increased the federal sentencing guidelines.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

Taking drugs and potentially becoming addicted has societal externalities. We currently have a opioid overdose epidemic in the US which taxes the emergency response system, not to mention the pain it causes to friends and family. There's a reason opiods are regulated in the medical industry (some would say too little).

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#328

Post by abnry »

pessimizer wrote: post #270
perl4ever wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

As long as you think the same arguments apply to toilet bowl cleaners, oven cleaners, windshield washer fluid, tylenol/paracetamol, antifreeze and visine, this makes sense.

People don't experiment with household cleaners like they do with pyschoactive drugs.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#329

Post by marcrosoft »

teawrecks wrote: post #287
marcrosoft wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control the action by the bad actor, not the drug. This same thinking was applied to LSD. “What if they put LSD in the water supply!”

How do you feel about the correlation between access to guns and an increased suicide rate?

Again, control (attempt to help) the actor and not the means.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#330

Post by marcrosoft »

xg15 wrote: post #283
marcrosoft wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this logic as I see it is that you place the good/bad verdict in the hands of the gov. instead of the individual. An example that comes to mind is Redbull and strike anywhere matches are banned in several countries. Both of these substances have been shown to be used responsibly in the majority of other countries.

Replace "government" with "society" (and centuries of moral philosophy too). If all good/bad decisions were made by individuals, we'd basically have anarchy and rule of the strongest - as most people would probably decide that "good" is what benefits themselves and their close friends.

All decisions are ultimately made by individuals. There is no such thing as a group. Decisions made by a “group” benefit some and harm others that disagree. It is literally impossible to arrive at an ideal situation when you poll a group. Every individual has unique needs.
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