LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison • Hacker News Board

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#291

Post by nearbuy » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

filoeleven wrote: post #264

perl4ever wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having no experience with it, nonetheless, the popular impression of LSD is that an incredibly small amount of it can be on something and inadvertently ingested, so I can see the perspective that making, having, or dealing it is an unacceptable risk of harm to people who didn't consent. Is there some reason that's unrealistic?

Counterpoint: PFOA / PFAS long chain polymers even at extremely low levels act as endocrine disruptors. DuPont leaks this stuff at its plants, people living near by have elevated types of specific cancers, and nothing is done. If you can get 20 years for two sheets of LSD, I’d expect life in prison for everyone at the companies who continue to leak this toxic stuff, and full payment of affected people:s medical bills…

Presumably they aren't dumping beyond the legal limits. That's how our system works. The EPA or other agencies attempt to determine what's safe, the government makes some regulations, and if you follow those regulations, you don't go to prison. Even if the regulations are bad.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#292

Post by WillDaSilva » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

melq wrote: post #214

nlh wrote: post #144

I found this line from the article particularly interesting: “The court concluded that the 20 years served are sufficient for meeting the goals of incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation.” Deterrence and rehabilitation (yeah, right) I knew were “goals” of the US prison system, but I never realized that “incapacitation” and “retribution” were actual legally-stated goals.

Technically speaking, retribution is a punishment dealt to someone for committing a crime, so any prison sentence is an act of retribution.

I'd argue that if the intention is entirely to rehabilitate (and incapacitate if necessary) then a prison sentence would only incidentally be a punishment.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#293

Post by monadic2 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #191

Government policy: prevent people from ruining their lives with drugs by ruining it for them with prison.

Big government is only ok if it’s punitive, apparently.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#294

Post by quickthrowman » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

grayhatter wrote: post #256

quickthrowman wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Violence related to drug dealing is a result on the insane profit margins on heroin, cocaine, and meth. It’s possible to make 70-90% net profit on cocaine if you can get it at wholesale, which is nuts. Of course people will kill each other for the chance to make 90 cents on the dollar. If you bought some Chinese fentanyl and made “heroin” I bet it’s closer to 95-99% net, imagine having a money machine tha…

> Of course people will kill each other for the chance to make 90 cents on the dollar. I was going to argue with you. Something something... not everyone is that bad. But then I considered all the harm large corporations do... Shit man wtf is wrong with humans?

I almost added a section about how corporations have killed (United Fruit, Congo Free State, and others) and would kill for those margins if the activity was profitable to offset the repercussions from killing, but left it out. I’m glad you noticed the similarity without it being explicitly mentioned.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#295

Post by ngold » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #175

worldsayshi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

Having no experience with it, nonetheless, the popular impression of LSD is that an incredibly small amount of it can be on something and inadvertently ingested, so I can see the perspective that making, having, or dealing it is an unacceptable risk of harm to people who didn't consent. Is there some reason that's unrealistic?

Is there a reason stealing 20 years is realistic for a victimless crime? Poisoning someone actually has serious criminal consequences.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#296

Post by monadic2 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #175

worldsayshi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

Having no experience with it, nonetheless, the popular impression of LSD is that an incredibly small amount of it can be on something and inadvertently ingested, so I can see the perspective that making, having, or dealing it is an unacceptable risk of harm to people who didn't consent. Is there some reason that's unrealistic?

Well, we don’t do much to regulate the most common date rape drug, Alcohol, so it’s not clear why we need to do so much to prevent adults from consensually taking it.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#297

Post by alacombe » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

teawrecks wrote: post #287

marcrosoft wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control the action by the bad actor, not the drug. This same thinking was applied to LSD. “What if they put LSD in the water supply!”

How do you feel about the correlation between access to guns and an increased suicide rate?

Canadian suicide statistics show no such correlation.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#298

Post by nickff » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

on_and_off wrote: post #269

nickff wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This logic applies against all 'victimless' crimes, including drug possession & use.

not at all. Drug use has one victim : the user. Time and time again it has been shown that legalization and cure are far more efficient and cost less to society but still many countries cling to the idea that beating up somebody who is down will magically solve the problem.

What about the family of the user? What about friends and relatives affected by a user's addiction?

If you think the impact on a counterparty in a car accident should be taken into account, I would think family should be top-of-mind.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#299

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

Bootwizard wrote: post #93

masklinn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reasons the feds in the 90s were unusually interested in prosecuting psychedelics. Psychedelics = hippies = anti-war left. A well-known and somewhat similar "unusual interest" was in prosecuting crack versus coke.

Oh it wasn't unusual. It was intentional. A war on poor and minority (mostly black) communities starting with Reagan's "War on Drugs"

> Oh it wasn't unusual. It was intentional.

I know that perfectly well, hence the scare quotes. I was referencing the term used by the person I replied to in order the draw a parallel between the two.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#300

Post by dahfizz » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #144

I found this line from the article particularly interesting: “The court concluded that the 20 years served are sufficient for meeting the goals of incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation.” Deterrence and rehabilitation (yeah, right) I knew were “goals” of the US prison system, but I never realized that “incapacitation” and “retribution” were actual legally-stated goals.

You don't give someone a life sentence to rehabilitate them. At some point, you have to recognize that certain people are dangers to society and need to be "incapacitated" from causing further harm.