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Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

jpkoning.blogspot.com

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Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#91

This is the same with gasoline prices too. CA gas prices are still well over $3/gallon despite low crude prices.

That’s just how much refining fuel costs. There is no monopoly of fuel suppliers holding the gas price up, and gas stations make very little money selling gas itself.

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#93

Biggest assymetry I noticed yet is that mortgage rates are often fixed no matter what happens to current money lending rate. I am no financial expert, but I think unpredictable rates hugely favor consumer. When rates are high and money is in high supply, inflation reduces the actual principal, as nominal amount Stas the same. When rates are low, you can refinance mortgage at current, low rates and reduce interest par…

The US government subsidizes the home mortgage market in the US. I don’t known of any other country offers people 30 year fixed rate mortgages.

Fixed mortgage rates help consumers because they can always refinance down to a lower rate.

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#94
post #24

The problem is that most people don't want to change banks. If changing your bank to get a better savings rate took 15 minutes and had no other consequences, banks would be updating their rates by the second to beat one another. But it doesn't. If your mortgage, credit cards, car loan, etc, are all with the same bank then switching your bank account only just to get 0.1% higher interest is a huge hassle for little be…

I have always believed there is room for an $xx/year service in the US that provides a virtual bank account number so you can easily switch banks in the background. The decrease in switching friction may actually make banking interesting/competitive again.

Fidelity and other major online brokerages do this with their money market accounts. It doesn't chase an optimal yield like what you are proposing, but that would be interesting. Instead, they use a large basket of money market and savings accounts at US banks and interest payments on your savings are drawn from a random bank in the basket each month. Because the federal reserve sets interest rates, it's difficult to chase yield in bank savings accounts. You'll always do better with bonds and stock dividends.

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#95
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is maintaining the ledger exactly? On what terms? Who has access to that account? What controls are they entitled to place on it? Is it maintained by the government? If yes, then you have a whole new set of problems. Now you have all your funds in one basket. (Remember, you've implemented the indirection mechanism, so it doesn't matter which bank you do business with, it's this weird government one all the time).…

Sorry I'm not American so I'm not obsessed with the idea that the state cannot maintain something. Your banking sector sucks compared to Europe.

That's absolutely fair, and I admit, I wouldn't be fundamentally opposed to it. The little magic 8-ball in my mind I use to gauge the plausibility of a particular political direction of development simply sees far too many endemic issues with American institutional philosophy to see something like this gain traction. Mind, I've worked in that space. It's a ridiculously profitable industry for those that operate in the space (usually with customer hostile profit generating models, and demographic engineering to ensure you're hitting the most vulnerable folks for revenue extraction; part of the reason I ended up getting out and refuse to look back).

As it turns out, the profitability per employee person in the company can be extremely high, which means there is a lot of lobbying potential to keep a cohesive National government maintained/specified banking infrastructure from coming into existence.

I'm not just trying to take cheap shots or be dismissive of the idea. It's just experience tells me this is well within "everyone stops being a dick" territory in terms of probability of realization through organic development short of some higher being deciding I need a lesson in being more humble today. There is some synergy or likelihood of an indirect development in that direction with the whole Stimulus boondoggle going on in Washington, but the resulting implementation will almost guaranteed be challenged as soon as any hint of the present crisis having resolved comes around. Private industry in the U.S. as a rule will raise hell to destroy a public alternative as unfair competition on free market principles, notwithstanding the self-referential inconsistency the private actors demonstrate at the first chance they get. This is why there are only really 3 public trust quasi-Corps I'm aware of. Post-Office (Constitutionally guaranteed), Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae. Okay, technically the Federal Reserve, but to be frank, their track record is so spotty, it feels more like the most elaborate financial shell game ever perpetrated than an institution to consider seriously effective.

It hurts frankly. I hate that the sector is as big as it is because we can't just all agree that maybe this thing is pervasive enough to warrant folding into the basic Public Trust toolkit. That's just the reality on this side of the pond though. We measure the trustworthiness of Government as a repository for broad sweeping social power based on the least virtuous operator in living memory. Unfortunately, we just haven't had a long enough run where people could be trusted not to abuse anything more functional than what we have. Quite the opposite. Gives me a headache just dwelling on it most days.

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always believed there is room for an $xx/year service in the US that provides a virtual bank account number so you can easily switch banks in the background. The decrease in switching friction may actually make banking interesting/competitive again.

Fidelity and other major online brokerages do this with their money market accounts. It doesn't chase an optimal yield like what you are proposing, but that would be interesting. Instead, they use a large basket of money market and savings accounts at US banks and interest payments on your savings are drawn from a random bank in the basket each month. Because the federal reserve sets interest rates, it's difficult to…

[deleted]

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this just prove that there is not a competitive market in these industries? If I - and everyone else - could quickly identify which bank/gas station was acting in my interest without colluding, I would immediately switch. The fact that prices are quick to rise but slow to fall is dependent on consumer apathy and monopolistic behaviour/collusion. It might be typical market behaviour, but it's not the perfect m…

> If I - and everyone else - could quickly identify which bank/gas station was acting in my interest without colluding, I would immediately switch. I doubt this would be the case for most people for a couple of reasons. First, gas stations are pretty transactional businesses that don’t rely on recurring customer relationships to stay afloat, it’s really all about the location. When was the last time you researched al…

> When was the last time you researched all the gas stations in your area and looked for the one that you felt served your interests above all the others? Nobody shops for gas this way.

I do. I own a classic(ish) car that both requires high octane gas and no ethanol. There's one gas station chain around that can be relied on to have it (in addition to every other fuel option imaginable). But I'm a relatively price-insensitive customer; I'd probably still buy from them at $5/gallon when others are at $2.50. Part of that is because of being happy with the chain, and part of it is anger at other chains for dropping non-ethanol options.

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK this has got a lot better with banks being forced to offer an "account switching service", which makes it trivial to change your current (checking) account. Things like salaries, standing orders and direct debits (for utility bills etc.) are automatically transferred across. It doesn't work with savings accounts though as far as I know, so it doesn't help much with managing interest rates other than interes…

Does that work reliably in the UK? Germany has similar a similar mandatory service, but the few people I know that switched banks using that service all ran into major trouble, like rent payments, insurance premiums etc not going through and the two banks pointing at each other "we don't know, it's those guys". In the end, I believe the best course of actions would to simply make account numbers transferable. There's…

Yes, it works reliably and comes with a guarantee that "If anything goes wrong with the switch, as soon as we are told, we will refund any interest (paid or lost) and charges made on either your old or new current accounts as a result of this failure."

https://www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk/Pages/Home.aspx

https://www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocumen...

Re: Banks are slow to increase rates on savings accounts, but quick to reduce them

#99
The problem is that the banks can borrow so cheaply that they actually don't want to pay their clients the interest rates on their accounts. As it expensive for the bank, and increases the bank's liabilities/risks (money in the books) hence they will lower the rates. Which then hopefully will lower the amounts on the books by people either moving it out of the bank or spend it.

That's what I understood from the bankers when I was working at a bank :) They a had a simple formula representing but can't find my notes now.

I am 'enjoying' interest rates on my bank accounts around the world between -0.5%-1.5%. I really should sort out the negative rent.

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