The Four Quadrants of Conformism • Hacker News Board

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#291

Post by __alexs » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

ggreer wrote: post #73

PaulHoule wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graham is in the bay area and he knows he'd get the smackdown from LGBT activists if he said what he meant, so he is using coded speech. The breathless tone that there is something wrong on college campuses these days (without being specific) is a dead giveaway.

Paul Graham moved back to the UK years ago. He hasn't run Y Combinator since 2014. Of course he still has many social and professional connections to the bay area, but he doesn't have to worry about what some activists in SF will do.

Maybe he should get a real job again then? Might help him get back in touch with reality.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#292

Post by ekianjo » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

AlanYx wrote: post #204

missosoup wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also from an ex soviet state. Also feel alarm bells going off. I'm legitimately scared. I've seen this before, I know where it goes. It's really hard to convey my feeling of alarm to people here though. Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it, I guess. Doesn't help that the conformists have been allowed to frame the narrative as 'either you agree with us, or you're literally Hitler/Stalin' depending on…

I feel the same way, but I think this era is much more directly similar to the "red guards" period during the Chinese cultural revolution than Soviet examples. Some of the parallels are just so direct -- students denouncing their professors, forcing them them to recant, the ideologies of the students growing more and more rigid and narrow through the conformity of the mob, until they often ended up even denouncing th…

The first best instance of this was during the French Revolution. People were guillotined in droves for being not merely enthusiastic enough.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#293

Post by SteveJS » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #230

oisdk wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peaceful protestors being brutalised by police has been documented in almost countless cases by now. I find it hard to believe that you're asking this is good faith, but if you you are then you can: * Watch any one of the hundreds of videos documenting what I'm referring to. * Read pretty much any major news source in the US documenting these cases. I'm sorry that I don't have a specific source to point you to, but i…

> Peaceful protestors being brutalised by police has been documented in almost countless cases by now Yes, I've seen plenty of evidence for that[1]. On the other hand you said "protestors are being arrested by secret police in the US". That's quite a different claim and I haven't seen any evidence for that. I've heard a few reports and associated videos whose reliability I haven't been able to verify. [1] For the avo…

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-us...

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#294

Post by coldcode » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

stopachka wrote: post #87

coldcode wrote: post #21

If you want to learn about the various types of people and how they relate to the world around them, study the French Revolution (in depth, not just a snippet). You will find every kind of person (in much more complex combinations than presented here), and how they participate/change/destroy/terrorize/etc. People today are no different we just have more technology.

Any books you’d recommend?

A New World Begins: The History of the French Revolution by Popkin was very good.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#295

Post by PaulHoule » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #270

stopachka wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn’t run YC anymore. He lives in the Uk at this point

Is there more context on this? Why is he in the UK for example?

It's interesting that he doesn't share anything about his life, isn't it? Even if his body is not in the Bay Area he doesn't show any evidence of having been around.

Even Piers Anthony would talk about the random things that happened in his life, but Graham doesn't.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#296

Post by t_serpico » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #32

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #18

Ah, conventional minded people are those who insist that those who break the rules are bad, worthless in society, and should be punished. Then Mr. Graham goes on to say that the rules of civilized, successful, wealthy societies are that everyone should be free to debate even the worst of ideas, and the people who prevent this or disagree with this are bad, never become entrepreneurs (a laughable thought), are not wor…

> How do intelligent people end up reducing the world into such obviously untrue caricatures? Hot take: as a function of increasing age

that, hubris, and intellectual dishonesty

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#297

Post by tenuousemphasis » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #95

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No matter what, the fundamental ideas that America is built on is focused so heavily on freedom Freedom as long as you aren't threateningly critical of America. The journalist of the Syrian War who took an anti-American stance and was targetted by American drone strikes would prove otherwise: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

And while you are aghast at that, I’d have ask if you’d be aghast at the people who bully and gaslight and threaten individuals who are critical of some aspects of progressivism. I ask because if we ever had an “antifa” government I can be almost certain the abuses would escalate to heights we dare not imagine.

"Yes I understand you're outraged by killing people with drone strikes, but think of the people whose companies didn't want anything to do with them after they said something nasty!"

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#298

Post by krapp » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #233

krapp wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how things tend to work when people are so alienated or disenfranchised from the system that change within the system becomes impossible, yes. And while people like to dismiss any group whose concerns they disagree with as being merely an "angry mob," more often than not that "mob's" concerns are legitimate, and their anger is justifiable. Laws don't get passed to "pacify" them, they get passed because public…

>> That's how things tend to work when people are so alienated or disenfranchised from the system that change within the system becomes impossible, yes. And the endpoint of that process is revolution. Again, not a good thing. Revolutions are bloody. How can you fix the democratic process so that works as it ought and prevent the disaster you're heading for?

I don't know. I never thought I'd see the day when Americans seem more concerned about "SJWs" exercising their free speech rights than actual secret police tossing political dissidents into black vans but I guess here we are.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#299

Post by wincent » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

ta1234567890 wrote: post #274

bambax wrote: post #109

I have come to intensely dislike most of PG's essays, for many reasons, but the two main ones are that 1/ he plays fast and loose with the facts, reduces the whole history of (the various peoples of) humanity to a single arrow, and confuses demonstration with affirmation and, more importantly 2/ he has an unhealthy obsession with "classifying" people, by which he actually means ranking them, from top to bottom. The p…

> he has an unhealthy obsession with "classifying" people, by which he actually means ranking them, from top to bottom I remember coming to an event at the YC headquarters a few years ago and that's exactly the way PG acted in person as well. He was surrounded by people wanting to talk to him the whole time, whenever someone would say hi and introduce themselves he would immediately ask for their HN username, then ei…

pg: What's your HN username?

ta1234567890: ta1234567890

pg: Hm, doesn't ring a bell... [looks awkwardly into cocktail glass]

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#300

Post by ziddoap » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

Funes- wrote: post #281

ziddoap wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think scientific papers are the only place that should be expected to, when purporting something as fact, be well... factual. Funny enough, all throughout my many years in academia I had to provide sources for anything I stated as a fact in an essay (including opinion pieces). I should of just let my professors know that I wasn't providing them a scientific paper -- I was just attempting/trying to provide a b…

>Funny enough, all throughout my many years in academia I had to provide sources for anything I stated as a fact in an essay (including opinion pieces). That requirement obeyed that academic institution's criteria, not the genre's traditional nature. You either were being tested by them or published something with their name attached to it, so it's only normal that they established the empirical validity of your writ…

Oh boy you sure got me by calling out my grammar. I'm writhing in embarrassment.

Good to know that outside of academia that things stated as fact have no requirement or expectation of being factual. I will temper my expectations in the future.