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The Four Quadrants of Conformism

paulgraham.com

261–270 of 882 posts

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#261
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there's a mechanism for changing that government: the upcoming presidential election. Whereas changing a cultural movement like the one we're watching unfold is a lot more difficult.

A lot of the people "being cancelled" on twitter are only freaking out because for the first time in forever, they get the direct opinion of people reading their texts unfiltered, and they find out that they are prey to criticism. For example, Kelly Loeffler, claims to have been "cancelled" while being a sitting US senator. Cancel culture by popular action is not new (see letter-writing to TV stations, Frank Zappa ha…

Of course a version of it existed, but the going concern with cancel culture is that it doesn't require much thought or effort to cancel someone now. Social media allows you to easily join a mob without judging a person deeply by yourself.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#262
post #230
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peaceful protestors being brutalised by police has been documented in almost countless cases by now. I find it hard to believe that you're asking this is good faith, but if you you are then you can: * Watch any one of the hundreds of videos documenting what I'm referring to. * Read pretty much any major news source in the US documenting these cases. I'm sorry that I don't have a specific source to point you to, but i…

> Peaceful protestors being brutalised by police has been documented in almost countless cases by now Yes, I've seen plenty of evidence for that[1]. On the other hand you said "protestors are being arrested by secret police in the US". That's quite a different claim and I haven't seen any evidence for that. I've heard a few reports and associated videos whose reliability I haven't been able to verify. [1] For the avo…

Something that occurred to me might be referenced by that is the phenomenon of unidentified government personnel arresting protestors in Portland recently. It has been reported that they did not wear anything identifying the agency they work in or the particular individual (i.e. no equivalent of a badge number).

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#264
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: political or identity point I am not quite sure I understand that view. Why is the statement “America was built on fundamental ideas of freedom” a political or identity point? From the way our government is structured (checks and balances), to the constitution (free speech), I think they stand on the side of freedom pretty objectively

Whether or not you believe America was built on freedom has a strong correlation to your political affiliation.

That has only been true for a few years. In any previous century, that claim was not political.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#265

> On the other hand, perhaps the decline in the spirit of free inquiry within universities is as much the symptom of the departure of the independent-minded as the cause. People who would have become professors 50 years ago have other options now. Now they can become quants or start startups. You have to be independent-minded to succeed at either of those. In defence of my chosen place in a university: being a quant…

I would also argue that the intersection of people who become quants / found successful startups and did so despite having a real shot at becoming a professor is pretty small. My only real data points are my own graduate school experience, but I haven't heard of anyone who was on a path to success in academia who didn't continue on down that path, or at least give it their absolute best shot before moving in. By succ…

You're probably right, however, you could also argue that (my GP comment notwithstanding) diversity of modern academic thought is still somewhat reduced compared to what it was, because the modern academic system pushes out people who would have been successful there in the past (for example see Peter Higgs' comments on the matter https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/06/peter-higgs-... )

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that you cannot parse out the "good" technology from the "bad" technology as that would require full knowledge of downstream consequences. Embedded in every technology there is a powerful idea, sometimes two or three powerful ideas. Every technology has a philosophy which is given expression in how the technology makes people use their minds, in what it makes us do with our bodies, in how it codifies th…

This feels like having it both ways. "Innovation is morally neutral" and "harmful uses are the inevitable consequences of innovation" can't both be true. I would prefer to say that the act of creating a possibility is different from the act of exercising that possibility in a particular way. But you seem to be saying that merely creating the possibility makes the use inevitable, and so the person who invents the tiny…

> This feels like having it both ways. "Innovation is morally neutral" and "harmful uses are the inevitable consequences of innovation" can't both be true.

I agree with you and I think I confused myself. What I mean is that technology has no inherent morality. It's not good, bad or neutral. You could judge a certain application in those terms, but you are really judging the morality of the user. Say a knife, it can be used as a cooking tool or a killing too. That is not to say the knife is good or bad, but that the user and his intentions are.

> so the person who invents the tiny cameras or the image-recognition software is inescapably responsible for the use of that technology to target political dissidents

I wouldn't really say that either. Unless the person was actively trying to make spy things to target political dissidents.

> it becomes harder to stop someone from using the invention in bad ways

The bad ways are not always clear. I will quote Freud from Civilization and Its Discontents.

"One would like to ask: is there, then, no positive gain in pleasure, no unequivocal increase in my feeling of happiness, if I can, as often as I please, hear the voice of a child of mine who is living hundreds of miles away or if I can learn in the shortest possible time after a friend has reached his destination that he has come through the long and difficult voyage unharmed? Does it mean nothing that medicine has succeeded in enormously reducing infant mortality and the danger of infection for women in childbirth, and, indeed, in considerably lengthening the average life of a civilized man?"

"If there had been no railway to conquer distances, my child would never have left his native town and I should need no telephone to hear his voice; if travelling across the ocean by ship had not been introduced, my friend would not have embarked on his sea- voyage and I should not need a cable to relieve my anxiety about him. What is the use of reducing infantile mortality when it is precisely that reduction which imposes the greatest restraint on us in the begetting of children, so that, taken all round, we nevertheless rear no more children than in the days before the reign of hygiene, while at the same time we have created difficult conditions for our sexual life in marriage.... And, finally, what good to us is a long life if it is difficult and barren of joys, and if it is so full of misery that we can only welcome death as a deliverer?"

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#267
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it bizarre that comments like these seem to think the main battle ground for free speech is young people like myself "cancelling" people on twitter, when at the same time protestors are being arrested by secret police in the US. Like there is an authoritarian government right there for you to criticise, but you choose only to talk endlessly about tweets like "can white people make rice, or is it cultural appro…

I agree. I would like for someone to enumerate all the people who have been “cancelled” and then compare it to those that have been violently attacked.

Your "just count the cancelled" does not work.

I have lived in the East Europe pre-Perestroyka and back then, it was "just count political prisoners; see how few there are!". And it was true -- there were not that many by 1980s. But there were few not because thought police was not real, but because any appearance of acting against it would be quickly dealt with. So very few people would dare.

That's the path we are taking today.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#268
I love PGs essays, but his take on Robert George is the opposite of what Robert George was saying.

PG: "He's too polite to say so, but of course they wouldn't."

Robert George from the quoted tweet: "Of course, this is nonsense. Only the tiniest fraction of them, or of any of us, would have spoken up against slavery or lifted a finger to free the slaves. Most of them—and us—would have gone along. Many would have supported the slave system and happily benefited from it."

https://twitter.com/McCormickProf/status/1278529694355292161

It doesn't change PG's point, but its just odd he used the quote in this way.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#269
post #109

I have come to intensely dislike most of PG's essays, for many reasons, but the two main ones are that 1/ he plays fast and loose with the facts, reduces the whole history of (the various peoples of) humanity to a single arrow, and confuses demonstration with affirmation and, more importantly 2/ he has an unhealthy obsession with "classifying" people, by which he actually means ranking them, from top to bottom. The p…

He had a habit of always making the hero of his narrative the “brave startup founder”.

You have to justify getting all that money for doing something that's ultimately not that important for society somehow.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's his personal problem. He built the ultimate machine to attract conformists who want to get another badge. First the conformists will push out individualists by their sheer bulk and better ability to navigate the approval process. (It's their core competency in life!) Y Combinator is a plant that has grown too large for its pot. Someday something is going to go wrong, there are so many people going through it tha…

He doesn’t run YC anymore. He lives in the Uk at this point

Is there more context on this? Why is he in the UK for example?
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