The Four Quadrants of Conformism • Hacker News Board

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#91

Post by missosoup » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

stopachka wrote: post #31

Loved this essay. The phrase “aggressively conventional minded” is genius, and may contribute a lot towards the solution. As someone coming from an ex-soviet state, I’ve felt personal alarm bells ring more and more, as I experience the kind of intolerance and double speak America is heading into. Both the left and the right my opinion are missing the key points on freedom (the left suppressing and labeling, the right…

Also from an ex soviet state. Also feel alarm bells going off. I'm legitimately scared. I've seen this before, I know where it goes. It's really hard to convey my feeling of alarm to people here though. Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it, I guess.

Doesn't help that the conformists have been allowed to frame the narrative as 'either you agree with us, or you're literally Hitler/Stalin' depending on political alignment, which is a very powerful weapon to shut down discourse.

This rising culture is freedom and diversity in all things except thought. This is how totalitarian regimes form. This is what my parents dumped their entire life savings into escaping, and here I am watching it rise again.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#92

Post by wdwecewc » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #22

thom wrote: post #10

Good grief man, if you can only detect new ideas when they erupt from the mouths of startup CEOs, and you can't credit things like social justice and equality as anything but conformist (despite having been denied millions if not billions of people), then you're not 'independent', you're just incredibly narrow minded.

What's ironic about it is that Y Combinator has been accused of becoming yet another badge of being the right kind of person. There are so many people out there who want to say they were part of "Y Co" but aren't really interested in making or doing anything. Bossing people around and having status has some appeal to them, but taking some actual stand is just too dangerous. Some rich dude like like Paul Graham might…

Looking at Paul's twitter it is clear he only really respects those who are as rich as him or present some viewpoint he agrees with. It almost makes me think that his writing on what type of person not to be is just projection.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#93

Post by nickthemagicman » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #14

This dude has to get out more and hang out with people who aren't like Peter Thiel. (Thiel burns me up. I feel stupid because he fooled me into buying a Girard book.) He's got an open invitation to stay in my treehouse but he seems to refuse to go anywhere that has weather. Maybe he melts like a witch when it rains or something.

When you ad hominem, you immediately tap out of the discussion.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#94

Post by DavidVoid » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

f0ff wrote: post #37

montebicyclelo wrote: post #7

> ...the latest wave of intolerance began in universities. It began in the mid 1980s, and by 2000 seemed to have died down, but it has recently flared up again with the arrival of social media. > the decline in the spirit of free inquiry within universities.. Are there some examples of what this might refer to?

Take Peterson for example.

People are intolerant of Peterson because of Peterson's intolerance though.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#95

Post by mc32 » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #38

stopachka wrote: post #31

Loved this essay. The phrase “aggressively conventional minded” is genius, and may contribute a lot towards the solution. As someone coming from an ex-soviet state, I’ve felt personal alarm bells ring more and more, as I experience the kind of intolerance and double speak America is heading into. Both the left and the right my opinion are missing the key points on freedom (the left suppressing and labeling, the right…

>No matter what, the fundamental ideas that America is built on is focused so heavily on freedom Freedom as long as you aren't threateningly critical of America. The journalist of the Syrian War who took an anti-American stance and was targetted by American drone strikes would prove otherwise: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

And while you are aghast at that, I’d have ask if you’d be aghast at the people who bully and gaslight and threaten individuals who are critical of some aspects of progressivism. I ask because if we ever had an “antifa” government I can be almost certain the abuses would escalate to heights we dare not imagine.

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#96

Post by gstomi » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #21

If you want to learn about the various types of people and how they relate to the world around them, study the French Revolution (in depth, not just a snippet). You will find every kind of person (in much more complex combinations than presented here), and how they participate/change/destroy/terrorize/etc. People today are no different we just have more technology.

I am mildly interested in history but never really looked into the French Revolution. Can you suggest a starting point?

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#97

Post by nickthemagicman » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

anonmidniteshpr wrote: post #64

r4vik wrote: post #2

50% of the words in this article could have been replaced with an image +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | | | | | | | tattletales | naughty ones | | | | aggressive | | | | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | passive | | dreamy ones | | sheep | | | | | | | | +-----------------------------------+---------------------…

So if I called my very bi gf to be at my work's stairwell for a nooner just before the lunch rush the day after we were in a tiny dark park in (a certain sleepy South Bay SF town)* for 4 hours going at it... I guess take makes me a take-no-chances, passive sheeple welcoming of law-and-order-types. Bahhahah }xD * Local cops actually made numerous good suggestions where couples could go because she broached it before I…

Wat

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#98

Post by nickthemagicman » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

throwaway98797 wrote: post #44

People hate to think. It’s painful. Passivity rules the world and the weak willed will always follow. It’s is the deplorables that can save us from ourselves.

It's scary to think. Truth is actually scary. Stories are way better for most people

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#99

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #80

stopachka wrote: post #31

Loved this essay. The phrase “aggressively conventional minded” is genius, and may contribute a lot towards the solution. As someone coming from an ex-soviet state, I’ve felt personal alarm bells ring more and more, as I experience the kind of intolerance and double speak America is heading into. Both the left and the right my opinion are missing the key points on freedom (the left suppressing and labeling, the right…

It's his personal problem. He built the ultimate machine to attract conformists who want to get another badge. First the conformists will push out individualists by their sheer bulk and better ability to navigate the approval process. (It's their core competency in life!) Y Combinator is a plant that has grown too large for its pot. Someday something is going to go wrong, there are so many people going through it tha…

[deleted]

Re: The Four Quadrants of Conformism

#100

Post by frabbit » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

I mostly agree with this: am pretty much a Free Speech absolutist.

However, I can't help but suspect that the reason we're hearing arguments about this now is because the liberal-Left are aggressively exercising their intolerance instead of the conservative-Right, who have had it all their way for a long time.

Aside: I don't think lumping liberals and leftists in together is useful. There is a strong dislike of the trend towards censorship voiced by those that are economically on the left. The embrace of censorship is coming from the corporate/capitalist/liberal side of things. Most on the left are well aware that censorship will be used against them first.