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Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

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Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#101
I would somewhat agree, I grew up in a third world European country (yeah, we exist) and I realized, compared to a lot of people in Western Countries, people here (older people at least, the younger generation is influenced by the west) are extremely stubborn and perseverant, spending much of their time thinking about how they can provide and being optimistic considering all the factors, thus being less susceptible to depression and anxiety.

A lot of my family were optimistic and happy, even though they worked long hours, and tried to make it, and generally we didn't have problems with mental issues (even though we've been through an economic crisis, wars, poverty, famine, etc...)

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#102
post #7

But what are you sacrificing in return for your “perseverance”? Very few people tend to look at the mind as a system, and also seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason. The reason why modern humanity have increased risk of these symptoms is because they know, given their perhaps wrongly learned models of the world or otherwise, that even when they achieve their so-called life…

I've spent a great deal of time and energy trying to set meaningful goals and progress towards things, then worry that I was progressing to the wrong thing and adjust goals etc. My current goal is simply to learn to be happy with what I have and who I am. As an indirect result of pursuing this I've found that loads of other goals and things that I've wanted to accomplish have become massively easier to progress on.

I wish you continuous, steady progress in this endeavor! Like you, I try every day to view what I have through the lens of gratitude, and it helps me a lot.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#103
post #7

But what are you sacrificing in return for your “perseverance”? Very few people tend to look at the mind as a system, and also seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason. The reason why modern humanity have increased risk of these symptoms is because they know, given their perhaps wrongly learned models of the world or otherwise, that even when they achieve their so-called life…

I disagree, perseverance is not the same as goal-seeking for goal seeking's sake, or at least, it doesn't have to be.

Twenty years ago I set a thirty year goal, literally bet my life on it. It wasn't until two years ago that I was reasonably sure it had a chance of success. I had to, and continue to basically give up everything, no one funds very long term research, so I had to learn to live on less than $200 a month. No healthcare, not being able to buy a new pair of glasses, only being able to buy clothes once a year or so. But I found a university who believed in my work, gave me an office and a flat on campus outside of Phnom Penh and the freedom to follow the project wherever it went. No salary, but it's been enough.

Perseverance is what keeps you sane, gets you up in the morning. It gets you through whatever is thrown at you. I have not had a happy or easy life, but it has been a life full of purpose. I have seen and done things that most people couldn't imagine, that has been, many times, too weird to be believable even as fiction.

Perseverance is a skill you practice every day for the rest of your life. But there are many small compensations. You find kindness and beauty and from time to time pleasure in unexpected places along the way.

With the university's help we will go to press with the first volume later this year, with a volume every year or so until it's finished on or about 2030. No one would willingly choose such a life, you fall into such things, and I was one of the stupid one's who took on such a ridiculously ambitious challenge. With a little luck I will live to see it through to the end.

So for some, purpose and perseverance, trump happiness and comfort and security. Though I admit I am likely and edge case.

I must say though, my wife and I sure as shit would like to live on a little more than $200 a month. :)

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#105
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are just a few. 1. Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Then others as they grow older. 2. Learning programming by writing a real system that actual people will use -- instead of code katas or reading programming books or attending a boot camp. 3. Marrying not only for love, but with the intention of building a business or farm to…

Alright. Because this personally applies for me, what about creating missions of past decisions made without missions? (This sounds naive, but I could use some insight.) For ex. I did my undergrad in IT Security. I did an MSDA. I ended up in professional sales. I don't know what to do with all this. I've been good at tackling hard subjects my entire life, but how do you craft a mission from a hodgepodge of difficult…

> how do you craft a mission from a hodgepodge of difficult and unrelated skillsets?

I'd say you don't have to fit the entirety of your skillset into a mission to be happy/successful, and that a mission with only part of your skillset doesn't imply you'll be at a competitive disadvantage.

All attained skills and knowledge do — or will eventually — contribute in one way or another to your path, even if they are currently irrelevant to your mission.

Personally, the best decision I have made was to start going to a psychologist weekly. It's essentially a debugger for the mind, provided you put in the work of dumping your mind data on them.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#106
While most here see some merit in such research - or at least in debating it, to me it seems utterly meaningless.

These papers seem like mere artefacts of the researcher's mind. At best, they learn a lot by (re)defining the problem, looking into different methods for testing their hypothesis ...

Personally, I never understood how mental unease can be tackled on the verbal level. Even if your definition of "perseverance", for instance, appears very succinct - there is no way it will mean the same to me in a couple of days, months or even years.

In fact, because of this I constantly have to redefine my mental models to minimize the time I stay passive/goal-less. This may not sound so bad, but it is emotionally rather taxing and I still spend a lot of time down in the dumps.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#107
post #25
post #7

But what are you sacrificing in return for your “perseverance”? Very few people tend to look at the mind as a system, and also seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason. The reason why modern humanity have increased risk of these symptoms is because they know, given their perhaps wrongly learned models of the world or otherwise, that even when they achieve their so-called life…

> Instead of understanding the mind (and consequently the body) as a system and listening to whatever small traces your mind has left in its great attempt to solve really important problems for you, we just blind ourselves to faux goals that we may not even actually want. Well, what might those problems be? What goals do we “really” want? For most of humanity, the majority of humans have had little options to change…

Our brains have evolved mainly for cultural knowledge accumulation over generations.

We must learn any specific hunting/gathering skills from role models while growing up. We even learn from others what goals are worth achieving. We are right now learning from each other how to think about our goals and problems.

This is not the first time humans have the choice of picking their goals. Even on an evolutionary scale we have always had cultural institutions to guide us with that (and/or exploit us). For example we have thousands of years of stories about worthy and unworthy goals.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#108
post #94

There's a ship. It has no captain, no crew. Where is it going? There's another ship. It has a captain and crew but no destination is set. Where is it going? There's another ship. It has captain, crew, destination but no course is set. Where is it going? There's another ship. It has captain, crew, destination and a course set. Everyone is ready to go and intends to go. Where is it going? Only one of these ships will s…

The crew thought it would be a smooth ride. But then came a storm and they all gave up hope. It is known that if you think the way to your goal is a smooth ride you can end up in a very big depression when things don't go as planned.

This is key. Many years ago, I learned while reading Julian Simon's Good Mood that happiness is basically the ratio between your reality and your expectations. When your reality is immutable, adjusting your expectations is the path to happiness.

I've had great results applying this principle to day to day annoyances. For example, when I go to meet someone, I always expect a 5-10 minute delay and go prepared (e.g. with a book). My loss (time) is the same, but my mood remains mostly unaffected. What's more, if the person show's up on time, it's a pleasant surprise.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#109
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading Viktor Frankl’s book Man’s Search for Meaning has been the best thing I ever read on this topic. Changed my whole perspective. The tldr version goes something like: “Meaning is irrelevant, but humans need meaning to live. Pick any meaning you want. Doesn’t matter what, just choose something. Then go for it with all your might. If you ever find it wasn’t a good meaning, pick a new one. You’re a different perso…

Sorry to blow your mind then, but to quote an HN comment of mine: It seems Frankl has been somewhat exposed/debunked. Would you believe he was at Auschwitz for only a few days, performed medical experiments on Jews himself, and it appears his main thesis about attitude mattering above all else for survival in the camps is simply false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl#Controversy There was a bit of a discu…

>It seems Frankl has been somewhat exposed/debunked. Would you believe he was at Auschwitz for only a few days, performed medical experiments on Jews himself

The Wikipedia link doesn't mention anything of the sort. And the other discussion just points to the same link / "proof".

On the contrary, it does mention that he helped save thousands of mental patients from the Nazis, and that he was held not just in Auschwitz, but in 4 camps (in which case, whether he was in Auschwitz just for "a few days" is irrelevant).

As for the "performed medical experiments on Jews himself", which makes him sound like Mengele, what he did was treat people including Jews who had attempted suicide. He used electroshock therapy and even lobotomy, but those widely used in the time, they weren't some nazi-like experiments (and up to the 1970s in the USA for example).

>and it appears his main thesis about attitude mattering above all else for survival in the camps is simply false.

That's just what some other professor said in some papers. Not some definite rebuttal. You can find papers against anything...

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#110
post #106

While most here see some merit in such research - or at least in debating it, to me it seems utterly meaningless. These papers seem like mere artefacts of the researcher's mind. At best, they learn a lot by (re)defining the problem, looking into different methods for testing their hypothesis ... Personally, I never understood how mental unease can be tackled on the verbal level. Even if your definition of "perseveran…

> While most here see some merit in such research - or at least in debating it, to me it seems utterly meaningless

Psychology in a nutshell.

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