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Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

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Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#51

Post by Trasmatta »

abootstrapper wrote: post #49
eric4smith wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are just a few. 1. Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Then others as they grow older. 2. Learning programming by writing a real system that actual people will use -- instead of code katas or reading programming books or attending a boot camp. 3. Marrying not only for love, but with the intention of building a business or farm to…

> Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Hol up. A little off topic, but a better goal is to be a supportive and loving parent. Don't have kids with a goal to have them do X by Y. Children are there own person. Guide them, direct them, support them, teach them, but their goals should be their own.

Yeah...your "mission" outcome shouldn't be tied to the performance of your child is some sort of task. Especially an extremely difficult one, like getting a kid to learn calculus by the time they're 10. That's a good way to foster resentment between you and children.

A better mission might be to help your kids explore their own interests, find what they're passionate about, and then do whatever you can to foster and encourage that interest.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#52

Post by kranner »

derefr wrote: post #27
cc_ashby wrote: post #7

But what are you sacrificing in return for your “perseverance”? Very few people tend to look at the mind as a system, and also seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason. The reason why modern humanity have increased risk of these symptoms is because they know, given their perhaps wrongly learned models of the world or otherwise, that even when they achieve their so-called life…

> seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason ...no? In almost all cases, these syndromes are not appropriate responses to the environmental stimulus. OCD is not adaptive in any situation. Neither is Tourette's. Neither is anorexia nervosa. Neither is akinetic mutism. Neither is tardive dyskinesia. (Hypomania and ADHD-PI might be adaptive in exceptional environments — there's so…

Do you have a source for the claim that these mental disorders or syndromes occur due to genetic mutations in almost all cases?

Also, you seem to be saying that even in the cases where a person is left with a bad brain (due to genetic bad luck), their I/mind is still perfectly capable of a rational analysis of their emotional states (here you seem to agree with GP) and can thus act reasonably despite a broken brain. But why wouldn't a bad brain almost necessarily result in a mind that is not capable of such analysis, or on acting on the result of such an analysis?

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#53

Post by mrslave »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #46
eric4smith wrote: post #33

Yes to this. I often counsel my younger friends to have a "mission". Then once that is completed, to find another one. In fact, one can have multiple missions running at the same time. It's rarely said that marriage, kids, job, degree, a house, car, and most physical things are not missions. And in fact, most of these things -- unless accompanied by a "why am i doing this" and attendant missions/goals do not lead to…

Maybe this is a bit semantic, because in general I agree with you, but: > It's rarely said that marriage, kids, job, degree, a house, car, and most physical things are not missions. No, they are missions. Anyone without them who wants them views each of these as a major milestone in their life. However, like you said, you need to find another mission after completing these. These things are kind of a like a "life pla…

I remember an interview with a very wealthy person. While describing his young adulthood he mentioned having the goal of buying his first luxury watch (think $10k equivalent today).

Now I don't like the if-you're-not-a-billionaire-then-your-entirely-incomplete subtext of motivation/self-improvement culture, but this man spoke honestly about having a goal to acquire something luxurious for himself, and the work ethic it instilled in his younger self.

I suppose the point is there is a huge different between life goals (even material ones) and retail therapy.

Getting married (as in, finding someone you want to marry and making it happen) is a mission. Perhaps becoming a parent is for many. Striving to be a good parent is definitely a mission.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#54

Post by jcims »

abootstrapper wrote: post #49
eric4smith wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are just a few. 1. Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Then others as they grow older. 2. Learning programming by writing a real system that actual people will use -- instead of code katas or reading programming books or attending a boot camp. 3. Marrying not only for love, but with the intention of building a business or farm to…

> Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Hol up. A little off topic, but a better goal is to be a supportive and loving parent. Don't have kids with a goal to have them do X by Y. Children are there own person. Guide them, direct them, support them, teach them, but their goals should be their own.

>Guide them, direct them, support them, teach them, but their goals should be their own.

Children are definitely their own person and I generally agree with what you're saying, but sometimes kids don't develop their own goals. Then they graduate from high school and their childhood is basically over and they have no inner voice driving them in a certain direction.

This is happening with someone I know right now and the anxiety that it's creating is making the problem much worse.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#55

Post by ajzinsbwbs »

looskyer wrote: post #34
derefr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason ...no? In almost all cases, these syndromes are not appropriate responses to the environmental stimulus. OCD is not adaptive in any situation. Neither is Tourette's. Neither is anorexia nervosa. Neither is akinetic mutism. Neither is tardive dyskinesia. (Hypomania and ADHD-PI might be adaptive in exceptional environments — there's so…

> OCD is not adaptive in any situation. > And, to be even more clear, these are unfit mutations, that lower their subjects' reproductive success. I don't believe this first claim is true and from my understanding the second isn't supported by current evolutionary thought. Could you explain more about why you believe these syndromes are never appropriate responses? I can offer my own anecdotes that OCD gives me a comp…

I’m not the person you responded to, but I’ve lived with a person who had a case of OCD that I’m confident saying is definitely not adaptive. To give one anecdote among many, this person would spend the entire day in the shower because they got a spot of grease on their pants. Episodes of this severity were common (ie. sometimes happening daily for extended stretches of time). They explained the cause of the behavior as a failure of communication between the part of the brain and solves a problem and the part that needs to acknowledge that the problem has been solved so the solving can stop. I don’t know if that tracks with psychiatry, but explanation made sense to me.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#56

Post by non-entity »

I used to keep together at some of worse times of my life by persevering towards goals, but nowadays everything just feels intangible or unrealistic. Not sure why, maybe because I realize I have less and less control over things. I guess right now things ar worse by the coronavirus and the fact that theres little I can do now. These past few months have been incredibly similar to past instances of self-imposed isolation.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#57

Post by Trasmatta »

jcims wrote: post #54
abootstrapper wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Hol up. A little off topic, but a better goal is to be a supportive and loving parent. Don't have kids with a goal to have them do X by Y. Children are there own person. Guide them, direct them, support them, teach them, but their goals should be their own.

>Guide them, direct them, support them, teach them, but their goals should be their own. Children are definitely their own person and I generally agree with what you're saying, but sometimes kids don't develop their own goals. Then they graduate from high school and their childhood is basically over and they have no inner voice driving them in a certain direction. This is happening with someone I know right now and t…

This is true, but there's also a pretty wide gulf between "do nothing to help your kids form life goals or skills" and "MY mission is to make my kids learn calculus by the time they're 10".

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#58

Post by dialamac »

eric4smith wrote: post #39
andi999 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you explained what are not missions, can you give examples for missions?

Sure, here are just a few. 1. Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Then others as they grow older. 2. Learning programming by writing a real system that actual people will use -- instead of code katas or reading programming books or attending a boot camp. 3. Marrying not only for love, but with the intention of building a business or farm to…

Disagree with most of these. Marrying for a high level of intimacy and partnership is by itself often enough — and if followed seriously often more solid - business plans fall through.

Having outsized expectations of children is often a recipe for resentment. Children don’t have tendency to evolve the way you plan before they are born.

Buying a house just to live in is enough for most people.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#59

Post by eric4smith »

dialamac wrote: post #58
eric4smith wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are just a few. 1. Rearing children with the goal of making them read at 2 years old. Then with the goal of learning calculus at 10. Then others as they grow older. 2. Learning programming by writing a real system that actual people will use -- instead of code katas or reading programming books or attending a boot camp. 3. Marrying not only for love, but with the intention of building a business or farm to…

Disagree with most of these. Marrying for a high level of intimacy and partnership is by itself often enough — and if followed seriously often more solid - business plans fall through. Having outsized expectations of children is often a recipe for resentment. Children don’t have tendency to evolve the way you plan before they are born. Buying a house just to live in is enough for most people.

In my 55 years of experience and seeing friends, family and others around me, having some kind of mission is critical.

You just have to have something to aim for with your spouse, or you do get bored. Currently where I live, i see families working in the family business all the time and they really are forced to be together working on something.

Whereas their children just want to move from the provinces and live in an apartment with a spouse and they are miserable, because they don't have something to work together with.

They think having the house, the wife and the car is enough. It isn't. It's just the recipe for a midlife crisis after you get all of those things.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#60

Post by sfgweilr4f »

There's a ship. It has no captain, no crew. Where is it going?

There's another ship. It has a captain and crew but no destination is set. Where is it going?

There's another ship. It has captain, crew, destination but no course is set. Where is it going?

There's another ship. It has captain, crew, destination and a course set. Everyone is ready to go and intends to go. Where is it going?

Only one of these ships will set sail, leave the harbor, reach a set of map points, follow that course and arrive at its destination. Regardless of being driven off course due to bad weather or other circumstance, only one has a real chance.

"Perseverance cultivates a sense of purposefulness that can create resilience against or decrease current levels of major depressive disorders..."

Sort of. Purpose means perseverance is useful. Lack of purpose means perseverance, resilience or even the least effort can be wasted.

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