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Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

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Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#71
Perhaps being naive but this is a classy move by GFI Labs. Also somewhat pointed, if you read between the lines, but am not sure if saying "it was our fault" was/is legally sound?

http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/samsung-laptops-do-n... (source) [edit to make quote clear]

-- quote --

GFI LABS Blog: Samsung Laptops do not have a keylogger (and it was our fault)

A Slovenian language directory for Windows Live is causing us considerable headaches this morning, and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

A Network World article has alleged Samsung laptops of having a keylogger. Unfortunately (and to our dismay), the evidence was based off of a false positive by VIPRE for the StarLogger keylogger.

The detection was based off of a rarely-used and aggressive VIPRE detection method, using folder paths as a heuristic. I want to emphasize “rarely”, as these types of detections are seldom used, and when they are, they are subject to an extensive peer review and QA process. (It’s not common knowledge, but folder path detections are actually used by a good number of antimalware products, but are generally frowned upon as a folder that looks clearly like one for malware has the potential of generating just this kind of result — a false positive.)

The directory in question was C:\WINDOWS\SL, and is the Slovenian language directory for Windows Live. This same directory path is used by the StarLogger keylogger.

How does this happen? A researcher has a number of tools at his or her disposal to detect a piece of malware. These include a broad range of detection types based on the malware in question. Sometimes, a simple signature is fine; other times, a more carefully crafted detection is needed. In VIPRE, among some of the detection types are heuristic (meaning, using a method of pattern analysis on the file); behaviorial (looking at the behaviour of a file in VIPRE's emulator to see if it does anything malicious) or signature-based (simply creating a file signature for the file). Part of the heuristic toolkit used might be any number of types of analyses, and these can include looking at the contents of the file for specific patterns that indicate malware. A researcher can also (but rarely) use a folder path as part of a more comprehensive detection set. Imagine you're a researcher: You see the folder name "C:\windows\sl". This is, indeed, something one would never find on a Windows system at the time the detection was written, so the researcher added this folder path to his heuristics for this keylogger. It was peer-reviewed and tested against a broad range of Windows platforms, including every foreign language set. Everything is fine and dandy... except that at some point several years after the original detection was written, Windows Live started using that directory to install Slovenian language files for Windows Live. Samsung started pre-installing Windows Live, including all the languages, and there you have the problem we're having today.

We apologize to the author Mohamed Hassan, to Samsung, as well as any users who may have been affected by this false positive.

False positives do happen, it’s inevitable and like all antivirus companies, we continually strive to improve our detections, while reducing any chance of a false positive. This one (admittedly, an incredibly embarrassing one) made it through our processes, and I have met with the senior managers in the area this morning to handle what happened and to continue to improve our processes.

The false detection is fixed in definition set 8878.

Alex Eckelberry General Manager, GFI Security

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes (I did see the link back to the original article). Specifically, I'd like some more information about their methodology. 1) How did they verify there were no key loggers (is their AV program set to identify StarLogger instances) 2) What subset of Samsung laptops did they check 3) Did they check from more than one source 4) Did they verify that the laptops they checked haven't been wiped & reimaged with the local…

At this point we have no more evidence that Samsung has keyloggers than Thinkpads or MacBook Pros. We really should be doing what you suggest for all brands and models of laptops. There's no evidence to suggest a specific issue with Samsung at this point. Even the antivirus manufacturer who detected the problem has acknowledged they made a mistake. http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/samsung-laptops-do-n... A pre…

Sorry if I'm being unclear, but I simply have an issue with their conclusions (and the article title), particularly since their article doesn't support it.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. An absence of evidence, plus noting the problem of the AV, is all that this article has.

The Ars Technica article [1] draws much better conclusions - "Samsung laptop keylogger almost certainly a false positive". It's a significantly more accurate conclusion than "Confirmed: Samsung is Not Shipping Keyloggers", given the data that we have at this point.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2011/03/samsung-laptop-...

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point we have no more evidence that Samsung has keyloggers than Thinkpads or MacBook Pros. We really should be doing what you suggest for all brands and models of laptops. There's no evidence to suggest a specific issue with Samsung at this point. Even the antivirus manufacturer who detected the problem has acknowledged they made a mistake. http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/samsung-laptops-do-n... A pre…

Sorry if I'm being unclear, but I simply have an issue with their conclusions (and the article title), particularly since their article doesn't support it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. An absence of evidence, plus noting the problem of the AV, is all that this article has. The Ars Technica article [1] draws much better conclusions - "Samsung laptop keylogger almost certainly a false positive". It's…

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#76
From the original post which started all this:http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2....

"After an in-depth analysis of the laptop, my conclusion was that this software was installed by the manufacturer, Samsung. I removed the keylogger software, cleaned up the laptop, and continued using the computer."

So, the author, Mohamed Hassan was able to uninstall a software which was never installed? I think he would have deleted the folder in question and called that un-installing!!

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#77
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect customer support to know what a keylogger is, much less know if their own systems have them installed.

But yet they said yes... I wonder if I call them up and ask, "hey, Samsung CS, did you guys install a flurb-yulb-gumbler on my new laptop?", will they say, "yes, we use those to violate your privacy."

It was still incredibly disingenuous and dishonest. There is no way any person of reasonable IT knowledge would go to tech support for information on engineering decisions. He was fishing for confirmation and he got it - I have strong doubts about Mr. Hasan's intentions when he contacted support.

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#79
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be a good reminder to all of the people on HN who jumped to the conclusion that this guy was right on very sketchy evidence. This place is influential. We should do better.

HN had many skeptical comments right off the bat. I guess simply publicizing this story before its confirmed is bad, but it's also how you shine light on an issue - in this case, clearing Samsung of any wrongdoing. Reddit fared much worse, IMO, in that people continued to upvote the wrong story after the truth was out. The correction has been posted but isn't anywhere near the front page.

Update - reddit has come around to the truth. :)

Re: Confirmed: Samsung is not shipping keyloggers

#80
I like this whole debacle. I think it ended well. HN, and the power of news aggregating/forum/linking sites wield a decent amount of media power. I like that - because it's one of the instances where the collective mind has greater intelligence than any one individual. It confirms the notion that tech producers need to pay attention to the tech community and shortens the distance between the two, which I think is a good thing.
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