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Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

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Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#71

Post by uxcolumbo »

08-15 wrote: post #67
uxcolumbo wrote: post #3

What a coincidence - I was just watching this month old interview a few hours before it was posted here. Maybe Youtube's algo is pushing it... Anyway, the way Joscha explained various concepts was very interesting - the phrases he used kept me hooked. At the very least it's entertaining. For example: "Social media is the world's brain hooked on dopamine - creating a permanent seizure" "Entropic Abyss" "Closed Cooling…

I noticed the same thing and had the opposite reaction. "Social media is the world's brain hooked on dopamine - creating a permanent seizure" Wow, what an insightful statement! Except it isn't. It's not even a statement. It's just different metaphors piled on top of each other until they nothing at all anymore. "Entropic Abyss" Lex Fridman actually asked for clarification here, but none came. Joscha fixed the mispron…

That social media statement - doesn't necessarily have to be super insightful.

The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it.

> "Entropic Abyss" ... The phrase is completely meaningless.

Well, it wasn't meaningless to the interviewer - he actually found it poetic.

And for me it triggered an interesting mental image.

> bad translation from German... It translates to "uninterrupted", not "closed".

I just looked up the words. 'Geschlossene' comes from schliessen, which means to close.

Uninterrupted in German seems to be 'ununterbrochen'.

So Closed Cooling Chain actually seems to be a good translation and it nicely rolls off the tongue - CCC.

> I'm pretty disappointed by the onslaught of empty phrases and the dearth of insight or arguments.

I realized some might not get much out of it - hence why I said that at the very least Joscha is entertaining to listen to (subjective - I know).

I got something out of it - what Joscha says makes me think - even if at the end I won't get enlightened, I look forward to check out his other work.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#72

Post by motohagiography »

logarhythmic wrote: post #42
motohagiography wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be surprising if it were a language issue, given Bach speaks accented english much more rapidly than the host speaking mostly unaccented english. It seems received or an personality/attitude thing, or maybe it's a substance use issue. Anyway, Bach is interesting enough I'm putting up with it, but I rarely feel so irritated and resentful of a person, so if someone else is repelled by it, stick with the podcas…

It doesn't really bother me, but for what it's worth, the host (Lex Fridman) has stated that it's simply the way he speaks as a result of his brain trying to choose what thread to follow and what to say

Lex's comment toward the end that lawyers are the substrate of reality won me over. That's hilarious. Was distracted by his mien, but funny justifies all.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#73

Post by cosmojg »

jmiskovic wrote: post #7

I was quite intrigued by semi-proposal of building a meta social network (it starts around 1:37:45). He proposes a service where anyone can start a social network using any features of existing ones (Facebook feed, Twitter conversation, Reddit threads...), with each network cultivating its own rules and reward function (criteria for what content is reshared or upvoted). On one hand it's over-ambitious and doomed to f…

Isn't that kinda what's already unfolding with ActivityPub? You've got Friendica for Facebook, Mastodon and Pleroma for Twitter, Lemmy for Reddit, WriteFreely and Plume for Medium, Funkwhale for SoundCloud, Peertube for YouTube, Pixelfed for Instagram, and so much more[1]! Not only can anyone spin up their own instance of any one or more of these services with whatever rules and customs they want, but all of these different services can talk to each other since they're all built on the same underlying protocol. It's cool stuff, and it's already happening today!

[1] https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#74

Post by 08-15 »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #71
08-15 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed the same thing and had the opposite reaction. "Social media is the world's brain hooked on dopamine - creating a permanent seizure" Wow, what an insightful statement! Except it isn't. It's not even a statement. It's just different metaphors piled on top of each other until they nothing at all anymore. "Entropic Abyss" Lex Fridman actually asked for clarification here, but none came. Joscha fixed the mispron…

That social media statement - doesn't necessarily have to be super insightful. The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it. > "Entropic Abyss" ... The phrase is completely meaningless. Well, it wasn't meaningless to the interviewer - he actually found it poetic. And for me it triggered an interesting mental image. > bad translation from German... It translates to "uninterrupted"…

> The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it.

Sure, but funny isn't insightful.

> I just looked up the words.

Words from one language don't map perfectly to those of another; idioms map even less well. Are you seriously trying to lecture me about idioms in my native tongue, German? Which happens to be Joscha's native tongue, too, which is probably the reason why some of his phrases sound insightful to you and like bad translations to me. Another example:

"A spirit is an operating system a brain runs on."

Apparently he tried to translate German "Geist", which could be "spirit", "ghost", or "mind". The appropriate translation is "mind", then it makes sense. The mistranslation to "spirit" makes it sound profound, unless you take the time to think about it. But you can't, because Joscha talks so fast.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#75

Post by andyjohnson0 »

antepodius wrote: post #52
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The game of evolution isn't to pass on your genes one generation, its to have your genes persist indefinitely. I think that's a maladaptive way to think about this. Attaching value and emotion to the long term fate of your particular genes is odd, given that they are almost completely identical to everyone else's. Whats the point in feeling sadness about this? And evolution isn't a game. It doesn't have a point, or…

>they're almost identical to everyone else's Do you really believe this argument? It seems like a strange one to make. Our genes are almost entirely identical, so why worry about diversity, then? Besides, people like you will, all else being equal, surely get outbred by people who do care about their progeny. So why worry? The tendency to hold your point of view will wipe itself out...

> so why worry about diversity, then

Of course I'm concerned about that. Lack of diversity and the discrimination that goes with it causes real harm to real people.

> Besides, people like you will, all else being equal, surely get outbred by people who do care about their progeny. So why worry? The tendency to hold your point of view will wipe itself out...

So. Why should I care about that? If these people want to hold that view then that's up to them. What am I supposed to do: try to compete with them?

Whats the issue here?

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#76

Post by uxcolumbo »

08-15 wrote: post #74
uxcolumbo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That social media statement - doesn't necessarily have to be super insightful. The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it. > "Entropic Abyss" ... The phrase is completely meaningless. Well, it wasn't meaningless to the interviewer - he actually found it poetic. And for me it triggered an interesting mental image. > bad translation from German... It translates to "uninterrupted"…

> The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it. Sure, but funny isn't insightful. > I just looked up the words. Words from one language don't map perfectly to those of another; idioms map even less well. Are you seriously trying to lecture me about idioms in my native tongue, German? Which happens to be Joscha's native tongue, too, which is probably the reason why some of his phr…

> Sure, but funny isn't insightful.

Is that an established and commonly understood fact?

To me anything that provides some understanding to a complicated matter or situation can be insightful - even funny things.

What isn't insightful to you might be insightful to others. Don't forget not everyone is at the same level of understanding.

> Closed Cooling Chain vs Uninterrupted Cooling Chain

When he says 'Closed' - it implies that it's uninterrupted. Have you ever heard of the term 'Closed Circuit'? Same thing.

I prefer his translation. It's simpler and sounds better (to me).

> Apparently he tried to translate German "Geist", which could be "spirit", "ghost", or "mind"

Interesting. Did he use 'Geist' originally in his German presentation?

If he meant mind - why didn't he use the German word 'Verstand' - which seems to be a more accurate translation for mind. But you tell me, as this is your native tongue.

Maybe he wants to add some colour to his talks?

If so, then I think spirit is totally fine to me. It doesn't make it sound anymore profound. I would say it makes it more interesting. And maybe the other reason why he used the word spirit and not mind, might be to cater to a certain audience, e.g. the viewers for the chaos computer club videos might appreciate sci-fi like Ghost in the Shell. You wouldn't say Mind in the Shell. Sounds dry and boring (to me). But spirit has a more positive connotation vs Ghost - another reason why he might have chosen that word in the quote you mentioned.

Joscha seems to have a knack for this - explaining things in a simple, interesting and entertaining way. Just look at all the comments on the various videos he appears in.

You might already have a deep understanding of the topics he talks about, but not everyone has.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#77

Post by Aeolun »

Barrin92 wrote: post #37
Aeolun wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the kid will have another kid and bring you grandchildren is though.

You can be gay and raise kids these days. That is to say Joscha Bach can given that he hails from Germany and the US, in some very conservative countries I guess that's an issue, but anyway that's not his point.

You can certainly be gay and raise children, but they’re at best half you and your partners’ biological offspring.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#78

Post by normallove »

jagrsw wrote: post #62
dan00 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think being sad about reproduction choices of your children is beneficial, therefore I'd also suggest dealing with it. Feeling sad about something, doesn't mean you're sad about it all the time, that's suffering. You just can't control every emotion in you and there's also no need for it, it's just part of being human. Trying to control every emotion is certainly more harmful than accepting them. > In the e…

I have a favor to ask for participants of this thread. I'm genuinely curious, and I don't care my about my karma points. What would be the primary reason for the proponents of the POV 'being sad about your grandchildren being gay b/c cessation of own genetic lineage isn't the best of approaches' being downvoted (like my every entry, and most others)? I believe it's an interesting conversation, and both side of it exc…

It's a recognized flag for a specific and rather imperial memeplex that is spreading rapidly. It also seems like a motte argument for the bailey of antinatalism, which is another strong and particularly distasteful -- for those who are not antinationalist I mean -- flag for this set of ideas that seems to come together or at least have an extremely tight correlation.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#79

Post by 08-15 »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #76
08-15 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mental image triggered by that sentence is funny and there is some truth to it. Sure, but funny isn't insightful. > I just looked up the words. Words from one language don't map perfectly to those of another; idioms map even less well. Are you seriously trying to lecture me about idioms in my native tongue, German? Which happens to be Joscha's native tongue, too, which is probably the reason why some of his phr…

> Sure, but funny isn't insightful. Is that an established and commonly understood fact? To me anything that provides some understanding to a complicated matter or situation can be insightful - even funny things. What isn't insightful to you might be insightful to others. Don't forget not everyone is at the same level of understanding. > Closed Cooling Chain vs Uninterrupted Cooling Chain When he says 'Closed' - it i…

> Have you ever heard of the term 'Closed Circuit'? Same thing.

Of course I've heard of it! Very much not the same thing. The cooling chain is open at both ends. It isn't closed like a circuit, it is still called "geschlossen", which is exactly why I'm trying to tell you it's a mistranslation and "uninterrupted" conveys the actual meaning much better.

> why didn't he use the German word 'Verstand'

To sound "spiritual", literally, so he can connect with religious nutters instead of just nerds. What do I know of his motivations?

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#80

Post by mrmonkeyman »

ExcavateGrandMa wrote: post #4

The day a machine is gonna try to have a conversation with me I'm gonna smash it the concrete way! keep dreaming about the perfect creature/slave/SEXBOT :D

You are just a memory of an AI trying to understand itself.
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