Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 184 posts

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#91

Post by Google234 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #84

Interesting article. I wonder what is really happening. Looking at moves by Chinese vendors and others, I'm going to hypothesize that ARM said to itself: "We can't compete with 'free' and RISC-V is 'good enough' that its going to wipe out the commodity micro-contoller licensing stream that is over 50% of our revenue. That means we won't have the resources to invest in designing higher end features in the high margin…

RISC-V still seems overhyped to me. It would be nice to see working examples being used competitively.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#92

Post by blinkingled »

fluffything wrote: post #90
blinkingled wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stops Apple from giving no craps about ARM CPU roadmaps though. They could just license what they need and build a completely custom everything on top without needing it to be a standard implementation in anyway. So long as whoever is buying ARM is legally mandated to provide licenses - Apple doesn't have to rely on them actually pushing out new CPUs/modules/features. Historically I think they have just licen…

> So long as whoever is buying ARM is legally mandated to provide licenses Why would they? With Intel, AMD, IBM with PowerPC, etc. CPU ISAs are not a monopoly. Whoever buys ARM might want to do that to start cranking up licensing fees, and might not give a damn if this results in customer loses.

If you have a perpetual license like Apple and many others do - that's a mandate to honor it forever.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#93

Post by throwmemoney »

The problem with ARM is when a customer asks to add a single new instruction, ARM say yes sure, that will be $10M+ please dearest customer.

No wonder everyone is jumping the ship over to RISCV.

Soft Bank did not do its due diligence, did anyone at SoftBank hear of RISCV before buying ARM in 2016?

The writing was on the wall since RISCV ISA was made open source.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#94

Post by manuelabeledo »

toyg wrote: post #63
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #57

I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…

True, but losing influence on the core component you've pivoted your whole company around, would also be pretty disastrous. Or in memespeak: scenes when nVidia controls Apple's CPU roadmap.

> True, but losing influence on the core component you've pivoted your whole company around, would also be pretty disastrous.

It doesn't seem to have hurt Apple in any of their past transitions.

The fact that Apple could improve their vertical integration by switching to their own silicon, doesn't mean that they need to control every single aspect of it. That rarely happens.

Also, any move by Nvidia to specifically hurt Apple would be not only detrimental to their own business, but likely an easy target for a lawsuit.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#95

Post by jacquesm »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #84

Interesting article. I wonder what is really happening. Looking at moves by Chinese vendors and others, I'm going to hypothesize that ARM said to itself: "We can't compete with 'free' and RISC-V is 'good enough' that its going to wipe out the commodity micro-contoller licensing stream that is over 50% of our revenue. That means we won't have the resources to invest in designing higher end features in the high margin…

ARM management has historically been anything but clueless, they must have their reasons for putting it on the market and yours is as good as any that I've seen.

RISC-V is a serious threat to their business model. In a way this is good, CPUs and the surrounding IP should be a (free) commodity, just like operating systems and utilities.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#96

Post by jacquesm »

Google234 wrote: post #91
ChuckMcM wrote: post #84

Interesting article. I wonder what is really happening. Looking at moves by Chinese vendors and others, I'm going to hypothesize that ARM said to itself: "We can't compete with 'free' and RISC-V is 'good enough' that its going to wipe out the commodity micro-contoller licensing stream that is over 50% of our revenue. That means we won't have the resources to invest in designing higher end features in the high margin…

RISC-V still seems overhyped to me. It would be nice to see working examples being used competitively.

It is work in progress on a very impressive trajectory.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#97

Post by blinkingled »

klelatti wrote: post #79
blinkingled wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stops Apple from giving no craps about ARM CPU roadmaps though. They could just license what they need and build a completely custom everything on top without needing it to be a standard implementation in anyway. So long as whoever is buying ARM is legally mandated to provide licenses - Apple doesn't have to rely on them actually pushing out new CPUs/modules/features. Historically I think they have just licen…

My impression (based on a talk with both Simon Seegars - ARM CEO - and Jeff Williams - Apple COO - onstage) is that the relationship is pretty close. You'd expect that ARM would be pretty responsive to the needs of one of its highest profile customers especially given the history and there is no reason why that would change with any sale.

That's the current story - where ARM is independent. If a competitor buys it and decide to not invest as much in ARM or keep things for themselves that's where this discussion plays off. I was saying it won't matter much for Apple but on the other hand Apple buying them would be a much worse outcome for the industry as a whole.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#98

Post by klelatti »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #84

Interesting article. I wonder what is really happening. Looking at moves by Chinese vendors and others, I'm going to hypothesize that ARM said to itself: "We can't compete with 'free' and RISC-V is 'good enough' that its going to wipe out the commodity micro-contoller licensing stream that is over 50% of our revenue. That means we won't have the resources to invest in designing higher end features in the high margin…

I understand the attractions of RISC-V and hope it does prosper but I'm not sure that it's 'free' to the extent that seems to be assumed. Some implementations are open source but others are not and someone has to do the work (and in most cases get paid for it).

Chinese firms may rush to RISC-V but given the geopolitics (e.g. Huawei) I can easily see barriers being put up in the US and elsewhere to cheap chinese RISC-V chips being used everywhere.

Post reply on HN