My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

Post by Causality1 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

joshuahaglund wrote: post #19

theferalrobot wrote: post #9

> In total, 650 million books were locked up just in public libraries alone. Because of that, we felt we could, and should, and needed to make the digitized versions of those books available to students Libraries also have movies and music... should they have put those out for free too? I love wayback machine but I’m not sure I follow the logic on this one. I’m no legal expert but that seems like pretty iffy reasonin…

Using controlled digital lending, yes. Why not? The libraries hold licenses to lend this media in physical format but were temporarily shifting to lending using controlled digital lending. They didn't just give away unencrypted copies to be pirated. They did what libraries do, lend media.

Post by duxup » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #16

martin__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard from this story, the lawsuit was because of unlimited lending: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391662

I wonder what the truth is. In this article Kahle makes it sound like they are lending one digital copy for every physical copy that is locked up in a library somewhere and not circulating.

Post by luckylion » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

abbub wrote: post #15

luckylion wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should anyone get compensated for creating the knowledge? If you "lend out" unlimited copies for a single copy you own, that compensation gets pretty much limited to a single copy and thew few copies that friends, family and fans buy, doesn't it?

Within reason, sure? The idea that that compensation should exist in perpetuity is nonsense, particularly when the people who most often are the ones getting compensated aren't actually the one's responsible for the 'creation' in the first place. But let's be clear, people very seldom 'create' knowledge, they extend existing knowledge. That's one of the main reasons why the human race has gotten as far as we have. It…

Post by garmaine » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #31

theferalrobot wrote: post #9

> In total, 650 million books were locked up just in public libraries alone. Because of that, we felt we could, and should, and needed to make the digitized versions of those books available to students Libraries also have movies and music... should they have put those out for free too? I love wayback machine but I’m not sure I follow the logic on this one. I’m no legal expert but that seems like pretty iffy reasonin…

I think the idea is: the library has 5 physical copies. IA loans 5 digital copies while the physical ones are locked up. The number of library copies of the work in circulation is net zero.

Post by nordsieck » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

pwinnski wrote: post #23

bmarquez wrote: post #20

I'm confused by this article. As I remember Archive.org created a "National Emergency Library" basically breaking the 1:1 ratio of physical to digital books in Controlled Digital Lending, and allowing unrestricted use. The lawsuits were brought on June 1st, while the NEL was active. Are these lawsuits based on the CDL (which I personally support) or based on the NEL (which could be considered piracy)?

According to this post, they did not break the 1:1 ratio of physical to digital books, but expanded the pool of physical books to include those unlent at libraries across the country. That is certainly a debatable point, though. More to the point, the lawsuits are in effect and moving forward now, long after the NEL has ceased operations. They are directed at the CDL now.