Earlier quoted context omitted.
The screenshot is there further down the article.
If the screenshot you're referring to is "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" (oddly this isn't placed next to the assertion of threat probably to avoid the comparison): a) this is not directed at George Floyd protestors as the article suggests, but at looters b) stating that violence with be responded to with force is a factual statement, and that response is entirely within the remit of law enforcement. T…
Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
171–180 of 224 posts
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've found it even of little use to bring up frameworks of other Western countries. I once got a lot of angry replies because I brought up the German approach of mostly just tackling hate speech and having independent non-profit fact-checking organisations label and correct posts, which is about as non-invasive as it gets while trying to deal with the problem, still got a ton of responses about censorship and free sp…
Those concepts of "truth" and "fact" may feel like absolutes but are a product of the observer. When people with similar beliefs/cultures/backgrounds/goals observe the same thing then it's easy to agree on what's true and what's not true. In general I think it's not a good look to tell somebody that the world they perceive is untrue, and that's why I support free speech as basic a human right :)
The pandemic is a pretty good example. There are actually a lot of protocols and behaviours that have shown to make it so hundreds of thousands of people don't have to die regardless of what timezone or nation or religion or political party you're in, yet aided by constant social media barrage the US is so divided it can't even manage to enforce that.
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#173"If a man is not a Socialist at 20 be has no heart, but if he remains one at 30 he has no head." I don't know who said this, but this is a great example of how our minds mature. The probably unintentional ageism in tech has a major, quite literally civilization changing consequence. We are creating power centers which have too many young people who haven't really thought a lot of things through, certainly not the uni…
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
"BBSes and forums" Observe flamewars on BBSs and forums tended to drive people away, thus tending to confine them through natural mechanisms. Our current systems encourage and fan them, and by profiting from them, create a system that sustains them indefinitely instead of naturally isolating them to just the people who actively want to participate. As someone who has a low-grade hobby of kind of keeping track of this…
I'm always reminded of this quote from Larry Wall, the creator of Perl: "The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." It's tough to get all this right. Humans are ok at dealing with one another in person most of the time, but being behind a screen really doesn't happen in many cases. I have no idea what the solution is... it's a pe…
Moderators and size limits, the latter keeping the amount of work small enough that a couple of moderators can handle it, and aren't getting subjected to the sort of stuff Facebook moderators deal with. Obviously, not having images or video also helps that. (Though I recall some times when Slashdot trolls were taking some good swings at Can't Unsee even with those limits.)
HN is on the upper end of what a community structured in the way it is can handle, I think, and it has taken some tweaks such as hiding karma counts on comments. I'm not deeply in love with reddit-style unlimited upvote/downvote systems... in their defense, they do seem to scale to a larger system than a lot of alternatives, but it comes at a price. I do fully agree it tends to create groupthink in a community, as a structural effect, though I think that's both a positive and a negative, rather than a pure negative as some people suggest. Some aspects of "groupthink" become "community cohesion" when looked at from another point of view.
Never thought about it that way, but maybe that's why a reddit-style karma system does tend to hold relatively large communities together.
But even as one of the more scalable known systems, it still breaks down long before you hit Facebook scales, or "default Reddit subreddit" scales.
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually don't think there's that much wrong with what the President tweeted/posted, but I do think it's inaccurate to compare what he said to just any old discussion of government policy. He wasn't just discussing government policy, he was talking about enforcing it in a very particular way ("the shooting starts"). There is definitely a qualitative difference between: "Deadbeat fathers should have to pay child sup…
Use of lethal force by civilians is permitted against robbery and trespass to varying degrees in many (maybe even most, not sure) US states.
The central debate is: should the ToS disallow incitements of violence, even if it's actually legal?
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#176This long article doesnt address the most critical point. If employees have an ethical issue with working there, why don't they quit? This isn't a new dillemma. People working for tabacco companies have always been in the same boat.
That's not a very fair comparison - there aren't exactly any huge positives associated with tobacco use. So it's not like someone could work for a tobacco company and say "sure some people die from consuming our product but on the other hand look at all the good we're doing..."
That's very different than Facebook where yes there may be some negatives but there's also positives (e.g. it's certainly raised countless millions for various charities, helped people keep in touch with others and discover (or rediscover) relationships, and spread the awareness of important social issues).
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the polling really all that different from this point in 2016? As I recall, in 2016, the eventual winner was way down in the polls right up until election day.
By the time of the election, the polls had narrowed considerably. There were a lot of clowns with predictions of 99% chances and whatnot, but people that actually understood statistics and polls had the race a lot closer to a coin flip at the time of the election (IIRC 60-40 odds).
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fivethirtyeight-gav...
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#178I feel like all of this debate is painfully missing the point. The problem is not some content moderation policy, the problem is that social media has changed social conversations from small local interactions into monstrous virtual fight clubs between millions of people simultaneously, and where the most extreme opinions are rewarded with the most attention. Boring level headed opinions used to at least have a chanc…
Re: Facebook's employees reckon with the social network they've built
#179One thing that's interesting is that Facebook has also come under fire for banning/censoring anti-racists and black people for talking about racism: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/04/24/facebook-whil... It would be one thing if they didn't censor anything, but censoring anti-racism but not racism seems to show that FB is taking a pro-racism stance.
From the article: > "White men are so fragile," she fired off, sharing William's post with her friends, "and the mere presence of a black person challenges every single thing in them." > It took just 15 minutes for Facebook to delete her post for violating its community standards for hate speech. I'm pretty sure that comments like that don't count as "anti-racism".
But anyway, that's only a single example, one women was banned for posting a screenshot of a racist message she received.