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My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

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Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#11

Post by jagged-chisel »

Qahlel wrote: post #6
eldaisfish wrote: post #3

Nothing makes me more angry than publishers who act like this. I regularly deal with the academic publishing industry and feel the pain of professors and students alike. The usual suspects are involved here - >I call on the executives at Hachette, HarperCollins, Wiley, and Penguin Random House to come together with us to help solve the pressing challenges to access to knowledge during this pandemic. The publishing in…

Each industry always tries to hold on to max profits first. They don't have long term vision. They only have yearly balance sheets to care about.

Yearly? Pretty sure it’s quarterly executive bonuses driving “The Market.”

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#12

Post by jjcon »

kiba wrote: post #7
jjcon wrote: post #2

Archive is clearly getting awfully nervous about the current lawsuits against them - I’m not sure this is going to do them any good though.

Whataboutism what? As far as I am concerned, we should be preserving knowledge and making it accessible to the public, not locking up knowledge forever.

Despite the circlejerk, copyright helps push innovation and human knowledge by allowing IP to be profitable for those that spent time and resources creating.

In a post-scarcity world though I would agree. Were not there yet though.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#13

Post by kiba »

luckylion wrote: post #10
kiba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism what? As far as I am concerned, we should be preserving knowledge and making it accessible to the public, not locking up knowledge forever.

Should anyone get compensated for creating the knowledge? If you "lend out" unlimited copies for a single copy you own, that compensation gets pretty much limited to a single copy and thew few copies that friends, family and fans buy, doesn't it?

Should anyone get compensated for creating the knowledge?

Look, do you want books to sit around uselessly not being read because everybody have to decide if they want to learn based on textbooks costing hundred of dollars?

If you believe people should be compensated for creating knowledge, then buy a copy. I certainly do.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#14

Post by wnevets »

eldaisfish wrote: post #3

Nothing makes me more angry than publishers who act like this. I regularly deal with the academic publishing industry and feel the pain of professors and students alike. The usual suspects are involved here - >I call on the executives at Hachette, HarperCollins, Wiley, and Penguin Random House to come together with us to help solve the pressing challenges to access to knowledge during this pandemic. The publishing in…

> Services like Steam, GOG, Epic et al have massively reduced game piracy.

This has absolutely been the case for me. I went from pirating everything to having so many games that I've paid for but haven't played yet. I'm sure part of it is being older with more disposable income and less free time but its just so much easier to buy the game on steam.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#15

Post by abbub »

luckylion wrote: post #10
kiba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism what? As far as I am concerned, we should be preserving knowledge and making it accessible to the public, not locking up knowledge forever.

Should anyone get compensated for creating the knowledge? If you "lend out" unlimited copies for a single copy you own, that compensation gets pretty much limited to a single copy and thew few copies that friends, family and fans buy, doesn't it?

Within reason, sure? The idea that that compensation should exist in perpetuity is nonsense, particularly when the people who most often are the ones getting compensated aren't actually the one's responsible for the 'creation' in the first place. But let's be clear, people very seldom 'create' knowledge, they extend existing knowledge. That's one of the main reasons why the human race has gotten as far as we have. It's something Newton understood very well, and but modern hubris seems to disregard.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#16

Post by criddell »

martin__ wrote: post #8
karlp wrote: post #5

Considering they were only lending to one person at a time, it does seem like the lawsuit is uncalled for.

Last I heard from this story, the lawsuit was because of unlimited lending: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391662

I wonder what the truth is. In this article Kahle makes it sound like they are lending one digital copy for every physical copy that is locked up in a library somewhere and not circulating.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#17

Post by bryanrasmussen »

karlp wrote: post #5

Considering they were only lending to one person at a time, it does seem like the lawsuit is uncalled for.

I certainly appreciate what they did and I donate to the Internet Archive but what does lending to one person at a time mean here? It's on the internet, anyone could lend, as far as I know.

If 1000 users come on a shopping portal and buy things they are all buying one at a time, but 1000 transactions are still done.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#18

Post by jandrese »

criddell wrote: post #16
martin__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard from this story, the lawsuit was because of unlimited lending: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391662

I wonder what the truth is. In this article Kahle makes it sound like they are lending one digital copy for every physical copy that is locked up in a library somewhere and not circulating.

From what I understand that was the original policy but when COVID hit they announced that they were removing those restrictions. Commenters went “you’re gonna get sued” and then archive.org was all surprised Pikachu face when their mailbox filled up with lawsuits.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#19

Post by joshuahaglund »

theferalrobot wrote: post #9

> In total, 650 million books were locked up just in public libraries alone. Because of that, we felt we could, and should, and needed to make the digitized versions of those books available to students Libraries also have movies and music... should they have put those out for free too? I love wayback machine but I’m not sure I follow the logic on this one. I’m no legal expert but that seems like pretty iffy reasonin…

Using controlled digital lending, yes. Why not? The libraries hold licenses to lend this media in physical format but were temporarily shifting to lending using controlled digital lending.

They didn't just give away unencrypted copies to be pirated. They did what libraries do, lend media.

Re: My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive

#20

Post by bmarquez »

I'm confused by this article. As I remember Archive.org created a "National Emergency Library" basically breaking the 1:1 ratio of physical to digital books in Controlled Digital Lending, and allowing unrestricted use.

The lawsuits were brought on June 1st, while the NEL was active. Are these lawsuits based on the CDL (which I personally support) or based on the NEL (which could be considered piracy)?

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