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Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

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Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#141
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not super familiar with antitrust laws, but it feels like they might apply here.

Is AWS a monopoly?

One can violate antitrust laws without being a monopoly. Certain parts of the law (regarding collusion on price setting, for example) can be broken by very small businesses.

See this helpful FTC page: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#142
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually patents working as intended. Unfortunately the way patent law works now, make patents usually not work unless someone is ignoring the law. Patents were created to give a reason for people to publish their "secret sauce" in a public manner, so anyone could read and copy them or create new products based on the patent. If you DON'T want your product copied, the correct course of action instead is make…

Those are then described as trade secrets and have their own protections as well.

Trade secret protections can be quite strong as well. In 2006, 3 people were arrested by the FBI for trying to sell Coke formulas to Pepsi.

Contemporary article: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/06/business/06coke.html

More dramatized version with info from court proceedings: https://thehustle.co/coca-cola-stolen-recipe

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if founders are as petty as Gavin Belson

You should listen to Michael Jordans hall of speech to see how pretty he was. He is considered the greatest basketball player in the world and he spend the whole speech belittling people.

In the docuseries he himself produced, MJ comes off as an absolute bully most of the time. It ruined a lot of the mythos for me.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#144
post #80
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Microsoft would behave differently?

They are not as competent at sherlocking as Amazon.

What a wonderful verb; thanks for relieving my ignorance. ISTM Amazon misses out on some aspects of the idiomatic definition, since they failed to popularize their own brand of client machines with an OS they control.

I think the original Netscape folks would disagree with your assessment of M$ sherlocking competence.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#145

"An Amazon spokesman said the company doesn’t use confidential information that companies share with it to build competing products" Maybe...but in the past, AWS proactively looked at traction of products hosted on its platform, built competing products, and then scraped & targeted customer list of those hosted products. In fact, I was on a team in AWS that did exactly that. Why wouldn't their investing arm do the sa…

Cannot up vote this enough. During my time both at Retail and AWS it was perfectly normal to trawl production customer data and come up with ideas to launch competing products. Prices were always set lower or free offering justified as data-driven and customer obsession. I hated the gas lighting their customers and left in disgust of the company and its leadership which encourages that behavior.

"perfectly normal to trawl production customer data"

It's not. And there are plenty of trainings inside of Amazon to make you aware of that. It is your fault, in the end, to not report your team. I have been on several teams at Amazon and this would always be an absolute no-go. It's already difficult to even get basic ideas about customer data, things that you would consider "essential" to improving the customer experience.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if founders are as petty as Gavin Belson

You should listen to Michael Jordans hall of speech to see how pretty he was. He is considered the greatest basketball player in the world and he spend the whole speech belittling people.

  s/pretty/petty/

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannot up vote this enough. During my time both at Retail and AWS it was perfectly normal to trawl production customer data and come up with ideas to launch competing products. Prices were always set lower or free offering justified as data-driven and customer obsession. I hated the gas lighting their customers and left in disgust of the company and its leadership which encourages that behavior.

"perfectly normal to trawl production customer data" It's not. And there are plenty of trainings inside of Amazon to make you aware of that. It is your fault, in the end, to not report your team. I have been on several teams at Amazon and this would always be an absolute no-go. It's already difficult to even get basic ideas about customer data, things that you would consider "essential" to improving the customer expe…

>> It is your fault, in the end, to not report your team

Talk about all time gaslighting. It's the managers/directors job to ensure compliance, not normal employees.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't sound like GP was saying their team did anything illegal – they accessed _public_ information about the companies they were copying. It definitely feels scummy, but it didn't sound like GP had access to evidence of a crime. IANAL.

Neither "traction of products hosted on its platform" nor "customer list of those hosted products" are typically public information. They are information to which a trusted vendor might have access. There seems to be a fine line between trusting Amazon to sell and ship one's products and services without using its position to sell competing products and services, and trusting AWS to host one's confidential data witho…

Ah, sorry, "customer list of those hosted products" I had missed somehow, that in particular definitely sounds proprietary.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#149
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why existing businesses joining the cloud pick azure.

What makes you think Microsoft would behave differently?

Since Microsoft has always known to threat their business partners fair.

Re: Amazon met with startups about investing, then launched competing products

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't sound like GP was saying their team did anything illegal – they accessed _public_ information about the companies they were copying. It definitely feels scummy, but it didn't sound like GP had access to evidence of a crime. IANAL.

Neither "traction of products hosted on its platform" nor "customer list of those hosted products" are typically public information. They are information to which a trusted vendor might have access. There seems to be a fine line between trusting Amazon to sell and ship one's products and services without using its position to sell competing products and services, and trusting AWS to host one's confidential data witho…

customer lists can be public, they never said the data was stolen
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