181–190 of 281 posts
> From their start in 2013, Nubank has grown to 600 Clojure developers, running 2.5 million lines of Clojure code in 500 microservices on over 2000 Datomic servers. Yikes that sounds like hell. Let's stop bragging about costs as a succeess store? Headcount? LoC? microservices? These are all to be minimized .
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Niche is fine. I don't know why people are obsessed with languages becoming dominant, or enjoy calling languages "dead". I don't need everyone to use Clojure. In fact, I'd rather prefer that my competitors use something else, because it gives me an edge over them. I don't have "expectations", I think "hopes" is a better word here. I hope to continue to profit from the core team's thinking and be able to use the tools…
I mean, that may be true to a point in the long run/true outside of webdev. But the dev who intimately knows Spring & Java/Kotlin is gonna be far ahead of you for the first 9 months, given that there's so much out of the box functionality. They'll be going through a nice paint by numbers scenario for most of the heavy lifting whilst you have to expound effort in creating what's done.
At the same time it's true there are products like roam research that are fundamentally harder to achieve in a cookie cutter environment
This talk kind of eludes to why that is https://youtu.be/rI8tNMsozo0 but it's worth learning there's many mature pieces of tech in this community that are astounding
If you need boring.lib then reach into Java/JavaScript with the easiest interop I've ever used
> From their start in 2013, Nubank has grown to 600 Clojure developers, running 2.5 million lines of Clojure code in 500 microservices on over 2000 Datomic servers. Yikes that sounds like hell. Let's stop bragging about costs as a succeess store? Headcount? LoC? microservices? These are all to be minimized .
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https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/10/221326-a-large-scale-... Section 3, RQ1
I have quite a few gripes with this article, and overall question the validity of its assertions, but interesting nonetheless.
For example, almost all of the projects in this study are infrastructure projects (I'm not familiar with all of them so I can't say that it's definitely all). I'm much more interested in application projects, and even if you (general you) aren't, you have to admit that an infrastructure project has a totally different set of characteristics than your average business application.
I think anything we can do to get more empirical data related to software the better, as we have devolved into strong personalities and conviction making pretty much all of the major decisions in our industry, which is really deeply sad. But we have to do better than just mining open source Github projects.
I thought Nubank was an Elixir Shop but now It looks like Nubank is a much bigger Clojure shop than Elixir. So why did they acquire Plataformatec?
They are a big Clojure shop. They hire Plataformatec as a consulting company. This podcast has more info: https://changelog.com/podcast/402
Anyone have an idea on the nubank stack in a bit more details?
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Niche is fine. I don't know why people are obsessed with languages becoming dominant, or enjoy calling languages "dead". I don't need everyone to use Clojure. In fact, I'd rather prefer that my competitors use something else, because it gives me an edge over them. I don't have "expectations", I think "hopes" is a better word here. I hope to continue to profit from the core team's thinking and be able to use the tools…
I mean, that may be true to a point in the long run/true outside of webdev. But the dev who intimately knows Spring & Java/Kotlin is gonna be far ahead of you for the first 9 months, given that there's so much out of the box functionality. They'll be going through a nice paint by numbers scenario for most of the heavy lifting whilst you have to expound effort in creating what's done.
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I have quite a few gripes with this article, and overall question the validity of its assertions, but interesting nonetheless.
There's a ton of problems with empirical studies about software in general. Very hard to conduct reliable experiments. In particular, I think analyzing public GitHub projects is pretty much the worst corpus possible. For example, almost all of the projects in this study are infrastructure projects (I'm not familiar with all of them so I can't say that it's definitely all). I'm much more interested in application proj…
Choosing Github projects and measuring defects on them has almost nothing to do with the quality of closed-source code (as we were discussing, functional programming languages in the wild). I also briefly started down the path of mapping that study's measurements to overall language popularity (as I think they're related - more C++ code available = more bugs), but gave up as I remembered that A.) Nobody's opinion changes as a result of a reasonable argument on the internet, and B.) Convincing this person nets me nothing at all.
You get higher quality code by hiring people capable of producing higher quality code. A great way to find people that are capable of producing higher quality code is by hiring for languages with extremely small talent pools - nobody got there because it was easy or the odds of getting hired were good. Functional programming might seem popular on HN, but in the wild is really not popular at all. Clojure developers probably care a great deal more about the quality of their work than, say, some random J2EE developer, as the Java dev might not care at all about anything other than staying employed.
I guess my argument summarizes down to "Functional programmers care more about their work", which, to my original point, has nothing at all to do with the languages they're using (as the person I responded to was saying). To assert that "Functional programming languages produce higher quality code" is like saying "This brand of hammer hammers better." It's just nonsense.
can one make a career out of clojure?
(luckily, extra mile != extra 100 miles)
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Say more? Would be helpful for others to further articulate your observations and opinions. No one has all the answers. For all who have a stake a full diversity of views is best.
I'll be really short: the bank lends money in Brazilian real to credit card holders and, in addition, keeps half of that in financial derivatives. The last real slide (3x in value) was in 2011-2016. Current world situation is.. interesting, to say at least, and 1 billion of VC money are not charity.
Are their financial reports available and published in English? Would be interesting to read.
I don't know details of their financial model, but will say:
* there is a long bootstrap process for a bank that involves being selective with what customers they can serve with what products at what margins in what order
* debt is a hard game, though in many niches now is the best of times
* currency is also a hard game
* in general, banks are valued at a small multiple of assets and do not attract VC
* in general, SAAS businesses are valued at a large multiple of revenue and do attract VC
So my assumption would be that they are using equity to build the ability to get into the banking core business as a SAAS, which is both lucrative and exploding as an opportunity (see recent nCino news). If they succeed, that's an extremely durable business, and not a bad place for Clojure to be. There are a number of languages that still only "exist" because they form the basis of a banking core.
Cheers. Thanks for the engagement.