Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#511

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

smattiso wrote: post #363

khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

Don't listen to this guy. You don't have to change your own identity and your own personal compass to fit your company. You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given. This life has a billion paths you can take. Understand the tradeoffs and make a calculated decision but follow your own path. Granted you may end up homeless. But from experience there are way mo…

I think the point is that OP is short-changing his/her own career. If you're doing the equivalent of 1 day of work over 5 days, and it's OK to your manager, you are performing at what most FAANG companies would call "Meets Expectations" which is just treading water career-wise. If your goal is to just tread water for the rest of your life and take a paycheck, then by all means keep doing it. If your career goals include climbing the ladder, working on something "meaningful", joining a high performing team with cool technology, standing out and getting prestige, whatever they are, you're probably not going to get there by relaxing on the "Meets Expectations" cruise control setting.

One thing I wish I learned earlier in life is that your career is your responsibility, not your manager's, not your company's. I spent way to many of my early years asking "What tickets should I work on now, boss?" and too few asking myself "Where do I want to take my career long term, and what steps do I take now, next year, and next 5 years, to get there?"

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#512

Post by minimuffins » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

Yajirobe wrote: post #488

smattiso wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't listen to this guy. You don't have to change your own identity and your own personal compass to fit your company. You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given. This life has a billion paths you can take. Understand the tradeoffs and make a calculated decision but follow your own path. Granted you may end up homeless. But from experience there are way mo…

Oh please, being a software dev in the US is being nothing but privileged. 'Starving Ethiopians' is not a fallacy - more than half of America makes less than $30,000. So yes, you are privileged and should be grateful.

This line of reasoning is insane to me:

1. Exploitation and immiseration are real and severe at home and abroad.

2. This guy is luckier than most since he's not in one of the most hyper-exploited groups.

3. Therefore: he should check his privilege and work hard to make the FAANG corporation earn more money.

Connect the dots for me.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#513

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

oliv__ wrote: post #72

jupiter90000 wrote: post #49

This doesn't directly answer your question and you didn't ask it, but I feel it relates directly to the source of your frustration potentially: you may never find a job that is fully satisfactory in terms of what you hope to find. I used to be in a similar boat striving to work towards and find some magical job that would make me feel fulfilled and purposeful. They all ended up having things I didn't like and would q…

I'm sorry if I'm taking this the wrong way but that sounds like settling for mediocrity to me. Who said jobs can't be fulfilling?

> Who said jobs can't be fulfilling?

The person you're responding to did not claim that jobs can't be fulfilling.

They merely said that people shouldn't expect to work a fulfilling job. And they're totally right.

In fact, I'd argue that the extreme majority of jobs are not fulfilling for the majority of the people working them. Retail, fast food, call centers...nobody enjoys those jobs. And yet people work them because they have to, because they pay so little that trying to get out of them takes an incredible amount of work, which is hard to find the motivation to do when you're so beat down by how incredibly shit your job is combined with constantly being stressed about lack of money.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#514

Post by kerkeslager » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #492

kerkeslager wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They work in a field famous for people deriving immense satisfaction from their job Do they? Not saying you're wrong, I'm really asking. It's not my perception that FAANG software devs have high satisfaction--more often the impression I have from talking to FAANG devs is that they feel trapped in golden handcuffs. But I'm open to the possibility that someone has better evidence than me.

It can vary highly from one half to the next, and changes with your teams, projects, etc. It can be extraordinarily rewarding to work on products that everyone you know uses every day. It can also be very frustrating and demoralizing to work on important components of the stack that noone inside or outside the company ever notices unless it breaks. The golden handcuffs are real, but most of FAANG gives you ample oppo…

You're answering a subtly different question than the one I'm asking. It sounds like you're saying people have opportunities to take steps to find satisfaction at FAANG jobs, but I'm asking, do people actually find satisfaction at FAANG jobs?

I can see how self-directed-ness might give people a sense of agency. And I can also see how being able to seek out novelty could keep you from getting bored. But I don't think that agency and interest are enough to equate to satisfaction for me. For example, I think it would be difficult for me to find satisfaction at Facebook, Amazon, or Google, because the vast majority of the effect I see these companies having is harmful--I'd be waking up and going to a job where I believed I was making the world worse. No amount of agency or novelty would fix that.

Obviously everyone is different, so maybe FAANG employees are able to find satisfaction in ways that I can't. I don't know--I'm genuinely curious if there's any actual data.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#515

Post by natalyarostova » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

smattiso wrote: post #363

khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

Don't listen to this guy. You don't have to change your own identity and your own personal compass to fit your company. You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given. This life has a billion paths you can take. Understand the tradeoffs and make a calculated decision but follow your own path. Granted you may end up homeless. But from experience there are way mo…

> You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given.

Jesus christ, are you serious?

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#516

Post by rsanek » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

> Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facemasks and still showing up to work at grocery stores and warehouses and wherever, risking disease because they have no other choice. Meanwhile you can't be bothered to work at home on your laptop more than one day a week, because the build system and tech debt makes you sad?

I'm always impressed at how much American culture promotes labor vs. labor infighting instead of recognizing that the issue is not the 1%. It's the top 0.1% (and 0.01%) that's causing this problem.

https://review.chicagobooth.edu/economics/2017/article/never...

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#517

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #468

unethical_ban wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey boss, I'd like to move faster on Project X, but there are too many review processes" That's just the way it is, John. "Hey, I'd like to change the change review process to streamline it from a catch-all form, to one more appropriate to our workflow" Sorry John, QA will never sign off. "Hey, why are we wasting 30% of our team on Project Z? It's a total duplication of work for Project Y, and brings no value to the…

I agree it can be demoralizing but what you've presented takes the perspective that you are just a victim to an organization rather than part of that organization. > That's just the way it is, John. Maybe you didn't communicate the value of moving faster that speaks to your boss's incentives. > Sorry John, QA will never sign off. Maybe you didn't show QA how the improved workflow actually improves the quality of the…

I have tried - and though I still push, I still call out the craziness, it truly isn't worth the effort.

It's like politics, but at least political change and civil rights are worth some mental exhaustion.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#518

Post by SubuSS » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

ben0x539 wrote: post #502

SubuSS wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer not to discuss compensation - so will answer this indirectly. Few SDE3s definitely make principal salaries, Principals make millions and so on. I remember there was an ex amazon guy putting up the top end numbers on twitter which seemed more along these lines. It sadly comes down to your managers and VP decisions. FWIW it is kind of a future investment IMO. You come out with a ton of knowledge and contacts t…

> I prefer not to discuss compensation Why not?

I guess I have old school compunctions against discussing it, probably comes from generations of folks not talking about it and considering it impolite.

I also have seen how people react when they realize there might be a huge pay variation for same titles - it's not good for anyone. I avoid conflict as much as possible nowadays, so it makes me more reticent. I pretty much redirect direct questions even from family because of that. None other than me and my wife knows how much I make - that's the max comfort level I'd ever get to I suppose.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#519

Post by dnautics » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

voxl wrote: post #404

dnautics wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the fallacy of modern tech-based capitalism and I hate it I hate to break it to you but no capitalism (and for that matter no non-capitalism) has ever been structured in a way that would satisfy you. For labor to be compensated for its "true worth" there needs to be a way to accurately judge what the "true worth" of the labor is, and honestly, the person to whom it matters the most is the laborer. This suff…

All you've said is that labor market is fundamentally flawed in terms of price efficiency.

Well, no. I also explain why.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#520

Post by bumby » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #508

bumby wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but where it goes off the rails is when people expects the corporation to act against their own incentives. When people complain about compensation they get confused about how compensation is set. Pay is not about the value you bring as much as it is about your leverage in negotiations. There’s many ways to get leverage like being the only person who can solve the problem, or systemic levers like unions. If peop…

Yes, unions and coordinated negotiation are the correct answer, but that's very difficult to pull off in companies this large with employees compensated so far above the cost of living.

100% agree that it's not easy, but it's almost certainly easier than the fight for collective bargaining during the industrial revolution. The idea that people just have too much to lose by fighting for it just underscores the point about negotiation leverage.