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Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

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Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#461

Post by kerkeslager »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #366
khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

I have a subtly different take on this; op is cheating themselves. They work in a field famous for people deriving immense satisfaction from their job, but they aren't because they are living down to the expectations of others.

> They work in a field famous for people deriving immense satisfaction from their job

Do they?

Not saying you're wrong, I'm really asking. It's not my perception that FAANG software devs have high satisfaction--more often the impression I have from talking to FAANG devs is that they feel trapped in golden handcuffs. But I'm open to the possibility that someone has better evidence than me.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#462

Post by skrtskrt »

codeviking wrote: post #421
khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

This seems like good advice, but is presented poorly. You're meeting expectations, which is great, but don't stop there. You recognize that you (and your teammates) could be doing more, so make it happen. You're entirely capable and empowered to do so: - Fix that technical debt. - Identify better tooling and demonstrate it's value to your teammates. - Proactively find things your software could do better and write ab…

This is good... only IF he can actually get to work on this stuff without being stomped on and blocked from every corner of the organization.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#463

Post by heavenlyblue »

khazhoux wrote: post #386
qntty wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AKA, please work harder for your corporate masters because poor people are suffering. What's that? You want your corporate masters to pay a fair share of tax so poor will suffer less? No, just work harder and that extra work won't benefit people who need it.

Yes, he should work harder -- he admits to working only one day a week, and then actively pretends (by "trickling out" work) that it took longer. Let's please not pretend that it's normal or OK to have 6-day weekends every single week. He is being compensated (I infer) very well for a safe and comfortable job, except he doesn't like the tooling and he's realized that people trust him and he doesn't need to be honest…

It would be easier if he could just give this job to someone willing to work those all day, but let’s not pretend that most of these people will never get the job anyway.

I don’t see how being honest makes this world a better place.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#464

Post by icedchai »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #449
icedchai wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? I don't know anyone in this field who derives immense satisfaction from their job. Maybe if they're less than 5 years out of school and reality still hasn't hit yet...

I think you might be in a bubble of evil, I know tons of people who love their programming jobs.

I've had some very enjoyable periods of time across various programming jobs, but it's far from the norm. I know plenty of folks who tolerate their jobs, are okay with them. But actually love their jobs most of the time? No way.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#465

Post by foldr »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #215
x0x0 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not particularly strongly. Salary is correlated with market demand and alternatives, both for the company and the employee. For example, I know engineers who are some of the most valuable people in the company, and some engineers who are borderline useless. You can be borderline useless but good at self promotion / good at negotiation and be paid a lot more than very valuable eng. fwiw, I'm on the business side of th…

I agree salary is correlated with demand, but I also believe there's a reason for that demand. CSMs have no leverage. Engineers are powerful because their work can have an org-wide impact. If we're talking about business value I think that sales (B2B), marketing (B2C/DTC) and engineers are the largest generators of business value in companies because of the leverage they have.

If half of all software engineers suddenly died, the remaining software engineers would be able to negotiate higher salaries. But they wouldn't be adding any more value to any given company than they were previously. Conversely, if a spaceship landed with 10 million highly capable software engineers, we'd all be on minimum wage. It doesn't matter how much value you generate. If there are hundreds of other people who could do your job equally well, then you won't be able to negotiate a good salary.

But it's cute that serfs under the yoke of capitalist exploitation think that they are being paid in proportion to the value they generate!

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#466

Post by throwaway987978 »

throwawaybbqed wrote: post #336
CGamesPlay wrote: post #7

It's possible that your or your team's productivity is actually bad, and in general at the company you are expected to do more, but the team you are on is a puddle of low productivity within the overall org. How would you know if this is the case? There are a few signs. What degree of tenure do other people on the team have? If old-timers aren't on the team, or worse, if they leave the team for others within the comp…

These are very good points. I'm curious what the process is from the perspective of the manager. I'm new at the management side of things and was always a top performer as an IC (so didn't get a chance to learn how its down on the flip side). My biggest challenge is figuring out how to give negative feedback (and not destroy a weak player's morale). If someone is having not performing well, I act as a cheerleader and…

I really found the Manager Tools podcasts on feedback very helpful https://manager-tools.com/2005/07/giving-effective-feedback

It's not about berating anyone. It's about constant subtle modifications. They compare it to driving a car. Even if you're on a completely straight road, you can't just keep your hands off the wheel and expect the car to continue going straight. You provide regular nudges to keep the car on the road.

Maybe this analogy doesn't hold up that well anymore with auto-correcting cars :)

I think your concern about not providing stronger feedback is valid. Highly recommend the series of podcasts they have around this topic. You'll think about feedback in a much different fashion.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#467

Post by enumjorge »

smattiso wrote: post #363
khazhoux wrote: post #346

This thread is seriously in need of some tough love. @faang0722, you're being a slacker, and not doing right by either your company or yourself. You're at one of the top companies in the world, and are safe from the jobs disaster that's gripping the entire country. Millions of people are desperate to receive $600-1600 from the government this month because they are unable to work. Millions are putting on shitty facem…

Don't listen to this guy. You don't have to change your own identity and your own personal compass to fit your company. You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given. This life has a billion paths you can take. Understand the tradeoffs and make a calculated decision but follow your own path. Granted you may end up homeless. But from experience there are way mo…

> You also don't have to succumb to the "starving Ethiopians" fallacy and take whatever crap job is given.

That’s very true, but there’s also the reality check that the job market has a lot of uncertainty right now. We tech people tend to have pretty good career mobility, but if the market contracts badly enough, it really may come down to taking whatever job you can get. Which as much as it sucks it’s what a lot of people have to do to put food on the table. The OP seems to be lacking motivation. Maybe the prospect of being jobless and without health insurance can be its own motivation ;).

I do agree with your point though, which I think is don’t just take what’s being given to you, do something about it. I think that’s also a version of what the parent comment was getting at (you don’t have to do little work just because management sets the bar low). And like someone else said on this thread, taking action may be extra important now. These low-output teams and employees are at a higher risk if the company decides to trim the fat.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#468

Post by bumby »

unethical_ban wrote: post #446
khazhoux wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not describing a tar pit, though. He says he works one day a week -- he could , in fact, be running faster. The simplest thing to do would be to sign up for more tasks (his calendar is open, after all) and/or tell his manager he wants more challenging work.

"Hey boss, I'd like to move faster on Project X, but there are too many review processes" That's just the way it is, John. "Hey, I'd like to change the change review process to streamline it from a catch-all form, to one more appropriate to our workflow" Sorry John, QA will never sign off. "Hey, why are we wasting 30% of our team on Project Z? It's a total duplication of work for Project Y, and brings no value to the…

I agree it can be demoralizing but what you've presented takes the perspective that you are just a victim to an organization rather than part of that organization.

>That's just the way it is, John.

Maybe you didn't communicate the value of moving faster that speaks to your boss's incentives.

>Sorry John, QA will never sign off.

Maybe you didn't show QA how the improved workflow actually improves the quality of the work

>Man, I hear ya, John. What a stupid project. But that VP has the ear of the Board.

Maybe you can find a way for that VP to get credit for that 30% reduction in waste

>Let's put that in your development plan for 2022. We need to knock out Project X.

Maybe you can take a lead in project X so you can build the trust needed to be given a role in design with more responsibility

I know these can come off as glib, but the point is that sitting on the sidelines talking about how things can't get done only ensures things won't get done.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#469

Post by maximente »

icedchai wrote: post #426
Godel_unicode wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a subtly different take on this; op is cheating themselves. They work in a field famous for people deriving immense satisfaction from their job, but they aren't because they are living down to the expectations of others.

Seriously? I don't know anyone in this field who derives immense satisfaction from their job. Maybe if they're less than 5 years out of school and reality still hasn't hit yet...

yikes, this is painful to read.

the power software engineers wield is almost unfair, compared to non-software laborers - there's unlimited ways in which to get paid fairly well, ridiculously easy lifestyle, and also work on tech that aligns with doing good in the world, generally speaking. one can't have it all at the same time... but with software, you can probably have one of the largest spreads of [mission, comfortable income, low stress, {fill in with your requirement}] out of lots of other jobs.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#470

Post by marrone12 »

throwawaybbqed wrote: post #336
CGamesPlay wrote: post #7

It's possible that your or your team's productivity is actually bad, and in general at the company you are expected to do more, but the team you are on is a puddle of low productivity within the overall org. How would you know if this is the case? There are a few signs. What degree of tenure do other people on the team have? If old-timers aren't on the team, or worse, if they leave the team for others within the comp…

These are very good points. I'm curious what the process is from the perspective of the manager. I'm new at the management side of things and was always a top performer as an IC (so didn't get a chance to learn how its down on the flip side). My biggest challenge is figuring out how to give negative feedback (and not destroy a weak player's morale). If someone is having not performing well, I act as a cheerleader and…

There are two approaches to negative feedback: growth vs deficit. In a deficit mindset, the negative feedback is everything your report is doing "wrong". In a growth mindset, it is things your report can "improve". Subtle framing like this can help with the morale of your employees as it's now how they can take the next step in their career rather than here are all the reasons you're a bad employee.
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