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Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

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Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#311

Post by willcipriano »

perl4ever wrote: post #295
WalterBright wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish when I went to college I'd had the foresight to simply record the lectures on cassette tapes.

There was somebody who used to run ads in print magazines, when cassette tapes were a thing, touting the world's best lecturers on a variety of topics. I think this may be them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Courses https://web.archive.org/web/20090714005930/http://www.nytime... Looks like they have adjusted, but used to provide videotapes and cassettes.

I've been listening to TTC for decades. Prior to MIT and others opening up courses online it was the only way someone like myself could get access to anything like that.

In the office, Michael Scott is asked to give a lecture and brings a boombox with the same music the TTC lectures start off with. Its a hilarious in joke if you get the reference.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#312

Post by xigency »

mikequinlan wrote: post #98

If this is true then online degrees are worth less than in-person degrees.

Exactly. That is the premise I disagree with.

The general sentiment here is that people have used college as an extremely expensive social club and believe that is its greatest value. I wouldn’t think of investing $100,000 of my current or future income in order to make friends or learn about myself.

I hope I’m not alone in thinking that I learned difficult material that I would not have grasped on my own and had self-improvement from meeting academic challenges under my own responsibility. Maybe this is rare, but I have directly applied my undergrad education to solving problems and used its foundation for learning more.

The social aspect of college is not itemized on the tuition statement. The cost of tuition is related to the quality of education directly provided by the school.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#313

Post by xigency »

chadash wrote: post #228

There's something about being on a campus that made a big difference for me in college. Some experiences that I had that are hard to replicate remotely include: * Group discussions in seminars. When you are in person, there's a better dynamic to holding a discussion. You can read others' body language and see when to speak up. Zoom works fine for very small groups ( * Impromptu chats after class with professors to as…

Would you really pay half the sticker price of college to receive those social experiences only, without the academics and diploma? The majority of those experiences are self-organized and don’t cost the university anything. Even if that is half the value of the college experience, it’s much cheaper than that. Why not live in a college town and hang around near the campus instead?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#314

Post by kmonsen »

gnicholas wrote: post #170
kmonsen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I lived in both ca and ny and the tax rate is pretty close to European ones. When I lived in Switzerland just the federal rate was higher than my Swiss tax rate. The big difference in total compensation after tax between Western Europe and USA is in the compensation part for people that are considered highly skilled. For example for me I get at least 2x here in CA compared to what I would get in Norway and Swi…

Does your calculus include the VAT, which is both a higher rate and a broader base (includes services)?

No, although both NYC and CA has higher sales tax than switzerland but about half of Norway.

To be honest my life does not change at all based on sales tax. Perhaps for cars but other than that it is sort of a rounding error. So little of my money goes to direct consumption compared to house and savings.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#315

Post by bsder »

IOT_Apprentice wrote: post #302
bsder wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I take it that you're volunteering to come run all my Audio/Visual stuff for free? I spent 120+ hours dealing with all the Audio-Visual idiocy to deliver a 20 minute talk that took me probably 20 hours to prepare. Yeah, adapt. I have some four letter words for you.

I thought you had TA's for that sort of stuff. People are addressing millions of subscribers on social media sites and you can't figure out how to stream your class? Join the real world, where the rest of us ARE FORCED to adapt or lose relevancy or worse, our jobs. The A/V stuff should be figured out by your University IT/Telecom staff.

> People are addressing millions of subscribers on social media sites and you can't figure out how to stream your class?

Joe Rogan, for example, has multiple full time staff. So, apparently this streaming thing isn't quite as easy as you seem to think.

However, I've got several professors who apparently need your vast, sophisticated audio-visual expertise. Anytime you wish to show up to demonstrate to them how easy this all is I'm sure they would be happy to have you. I'd make you do it for free, but I'm a jerk like that--they'd probably even buy you pizza and beer because they're nicer people than me.

(In case you don't get it--yeah, I'm calling you full of shit.)

> The A/V stuff should be figured out by your University IT/Telecom staff.

If you were in front of me, I would laugh in your face. The uselessness of University IT/Telecom is legendary.

Are the TAs (who aren't even back at school) and IT staff going to go to the houses of thousands of professors to install streaming equipment?

And the IT staff doesn't really exist much anymore at Universities because everything is "in the cloud", ya know, so we laid them all off.

And that's if you can GET a audio visual equipment, by the way. Webcams have been sold out for months.

And, I'll be blunt, I probably spent almost $2,000 to upgrade my equipment to reach the level of "not suck". Not "excellent", just "not suck". I'm a tech guy at a high level and can afford it.

However, you are also implying that every English professor should spend that when they are barely making living wages? Good luck with that.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#316

Post by f6v »

cpursley wrote: post #51
f6v wrote: post #40

And here I am in Belgium, paying 2000 a year for a Masters degree.

Also, half your paycheck goes to the government and European tech salaries are nearly half that of the US. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Plot twist: I never paid taxes in Belgium and I’m not an EU national. So I’m pretty much getting a free lunch.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#317

Post by frankie_t »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #308
ternaus wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that for some many it is challenging to have a high quality online course. I believe some courses could be taken online. For example, here is an amazing course on Algorithms and Data Structures by Robert Sedgewick https://www.coursera.org/learn/algorithms-part1 ? at Coursera. It works really well for the online format. So, not all online classes suck. My major was Physics and I was teaching all five years…

Of course the inherent meaning in the statement is that a large portion of these things do suck, for most people. I find it telling that most people who start an online course never finish them - why? The experience isn't worth it. Just like a video call hasn't replaced person-person interaction, nor can an online course truly replace an in-person class - so many more things happen in the classroom or at a university…

> I find it telling that most people who start an online course never finish them

I wouldn't go this far. Enrolling to an online course is essentially an effortless endeavour, unlike on-campus studying. You don't pay anything (or pay less), you don't have to move physically, you (sometimes) can go at your own pace, you can take just this one course instead of the whole curriculum, etc.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#318

Post by [deleted] »

xigency wrote: post #313
chadash wrote: post #228

There's something about being on a campus that made a big difference for me in college. Some experiences that I had that are hard to replicate remotely include: * Group discussions in seminars. When you are in person, there's a better dynamic to holding a discussion. You can read others' body language and see when to speak up. Zoom works fine for very small groups ( * Impromptu chats after class with professors to as…

Would you really pay half the sticker price of college to receive those social experiences only, without the academics and diploma? The majority of those experiences are self-organized and don’t cost the university anything. Even if that is half the value of the college experience, it’s much cheaper than that. Why not live in a college town and hang around near the campus instead?

[deleted]

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#319

Post by chadash »

xigency wrote: post #313
chadash wrote: post #228

There's something about being on a campus that made a big difference for me in college. Some experiences that I had that are hard to replicate remotely include: * Group discussions in seminars. When you are in person, there's a better dynamic to holding a discussion. You can read others' body language and see when to speak up. Zoom works fine for very small groups ( * Impromptu chats after class with professors to as…

Would you really pay half the sticker price of college to receive those social experiences only, without the academics and diploma? The majority of those experiences are self-organized and don’t cost the university anything. Even if that is half the value of the college experience, it’s much cheaper than that. Why not live in a college town and hang around near the campus instead?

> Would you really pay half the sticker price of college to receive those social experiences only, without the academics and diploma?

It's hard to break out the costs. When I go to a nice restaurant, I wouldn't pay 50% for the ambiance alone without the food or for the food without the ambiance. It's a package and the sum is worth more than the pieces.

I might pay full tuition for remote college if i'm in my last semester, for example. But otherwise, I don't think it's worth it.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#320

Post by rdtwo »

hajile wrote: post #261
dminzi wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody keeps saying that it is a no brainer to take a gap year. I am headed into my senior year and I don't think it is as clear cut as everybody here makes it out to be. What are my options when I take a gap year? I can either live in my apartment near my school and do nothing or live at home. Either way, I am doing nothing because I have no money. I haven't gone to classes consistently since the end of my sophom…

Beware of the job market. If you can't find a job when you graduate next year, you get to go into the horrible "haven't had a job since I graduated X months ago" which can turn your resume into poison for quite a few industries. I saw a lot of people have this issue after the 2008 collapse.

Under appreciated comment people taking gap years should absolutely do it if they think they will graduate into the bottom of the crisis
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