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Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

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Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#181

Post by mirimir »

hobofan wrote: post #162
mirimir wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's some way to do testing on a walk-in basis, in a way that would allow transparency re the lack of sample and data retention. So a customer walks in, provides a sample, and walks out with data on a thumb drive. And perhaps also with the module that was used for the analysis.

That would obviously more expensive than the $100 sequencing a lot of people are looking for, but for very privacy conscious people this could be available right now with a MinION[0] that's already in the $1000-2000 range, if you really want to take the whole device with you. [0]: https://nanoporetech.com/products/minion

Wow, that's better than I expected! So maybe a resale market could develop on Craigslist or whatever. Buy one, get your data, clean and wipe it thoroughly, and then resell it. Maybe the refurbished price would stabilize at $500 or whatever.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#182

Post by crumpled »

slg wrote: post #141
site-packages1 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think insurance companies aren't above doing anything illegal, especially if it can not insure you/drive you away with a high quote if it saves them many years and millions and millions of dollars covering someone's care for Huntington's or chemo for breast cancer or some other terrible disease for which someone is genetically predisposed. The punishment for violations of the Genetic Information NonDiscrimination A…

There are a couple problems with this line of thinking. First, a lack of known cases doesn't mean that this is necessarily hard to detect or that it isn't being prosecuted. It might also simply not be happening. That seems to be the most likely scenario given how hard it currently would be to secretly acquire and use this genetic data. Also you don't need to have a massive amount of HIPAA protected data to be publicl…

If the data is managed by a company that isn't in the healthcare industry, HIPPA doesn't apply. An insurance company, even a health insurance company can purchase non healthcare data from an analytics company.

It wasn't HIPPA protected when it was on my heritage, and it won't be healthcare data when it's eventually leaked and resold.

If you don't think legitimate companies are interested in buying that data, look around at the market for our password breach and identity theft data. There's a brisk, legal trade.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#183

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

0xy wrote: post #174
daave wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems unlikely to be a sustainable business. For GEDMatch, Ancestry.com, 23andMe, etc, most of the value comes from being able to aggregate many people's data. If they had to delete it after collecting, they'd have to charge a lot more, and there's just no market for that. Perhaps they could anonymize the data (at least, purge foreign key references to account/billing info) after 6 months, but not delete it.

Much like you can't anonymize browsing history data, email metadata or financial transactions -- I suspect DNA information also cannot be satisfactorily anonymized. "Anonymized data" is a marketing term.

Was going to say this as well- I highly doubt it's possible to anonymize DNA and still have useful data.

'Anonymized Data' is a misnomer.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#184

Post by lukejduncan »

riffraff wrote: post #176
tzs wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That leads to my afterlife nightmare scenario. I die bravely in glorious battle and am chosen by the Valkyries for Valhalla. One evening as we feast after that day's fighting, quaffing giant tankards of mead and boasting of our deeds, there comes a knock at the door. Two young men in suits enter, and go to speak to Odin. Odin then call for me to come over. He tells me that the young men are Mormons, and that some dis…

I believe the "if you live a good life you go to heaven" is a common tenet of many Christian denominations since the Vatican Council. At least, I recall my religion teacher (a catholic priest, we have such a class in public schools in Italy tho they vary in content and quality) telling us that some decades ago. You do not go to heaven if you're an atheist tho, as _denying_ there is something divine puts you in the ba…

Definitely not on the Protestant branch of things.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#185

Post by hobofan »

mirimir wrote: post #181
hobofan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would obviously more expensive than the $100 sequencing a lot of people are looking for, but for very privacy conscious people this could be available right now with a MinION[0] that's already in the $1000-2000 range, if you really want to take the whole device with you. [0]: https://nanoporetech.com/products/minion

Wow, that's better than I expected! So maybe a resale market could develop on Craigslist or whatever. Buy one, get your data, clean and wipe it thoroughly, and then resell it. Maybe the refurbished price would stabilize at $500 or whatever.

There are some caveats with that though (some of which I just found out after some digging):

- You'll probably need more than one flow cell (which is used up during sequencing) for a human genome

- The flow cells make up the bulk of the price, costing ~$800 in single unit quantities

- You have to send in used flow cells for refurbishing (which is how they can make them as cheap)

So the $1000 is more or less already the refurbished price.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#186

Post by mirimir »

hobofan wrote: post #185
mirimir wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's better than I expected! So maybe a resale market could develop on Craigslist or whatever. Buy one, get your data, clean and wipe it thoroughly, and then resell it. Maybe the refurbished price would stabilize at $500 or whatever.

There are some caveats with that though (some of which I just found out after some digging): - You'll probably need more than one flow cell (which is used up during sequencing) for a human genome - The flow cells make up the bulk of the price, costing ~$800 in single unit quantities - You have to send in used flow cells for refurbishing (which is how they can make them as cheap) So the $1000 is more or less already t…

I wonder how fast the flow cell price will drop. But even at $1000 I might be tempted, except that I'm so damn old, and never (as far as I know) had any kids.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#187

Post by victor9000 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #134
clusterfish wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't do that to a million people, only to individual targets. Economic scale matters in a lot of evil plots.

What could you do to a million or a billion people that would make life a nightmare for them if their biometric data was stolen en masse?

Discriminate against them based on medical conditions, persecute them based on "impurities" (think Hitler & Jews or China & Uyghurs), make them targets of fishing expeditions for unsolved crimes, etc.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#188

Post by [deleted] »

daave wrote: post #172
novok wrote: post #166

This is why I want a genetic sequencing lab that will sequence your genome, send it to you encrypted by your own public key and once you confirm receipt and verify it is valid, DELETE IT COMPLETELY. Along with the record you were their customer after the 6 months or whatever required for waiting out chargebacks. Then you can analyze your DNA with a desktop app that doesn't send out any data. The deleting part is hard…

Seems unlikely to be a sustainable business. For GEDMatch, Ancestry.com, 23andMe, etc, most of the value comes from being able to aggregate many people's data. If they had to delete it after collecting, they'd have to charge a lot more, and there's just no market for that. Perhaps they could anonymize the data (at least, purge foreign key references to account/billing info) after 6 months, but not delete it.

[deleted]

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#189

Post by Thorrez »

perl4ever wrote: post #128
edbaskerville wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been a bit of that. Although it is officially against church policy, some Mormons have baptized some deceased Jews, including Anne Frank: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/jews-take-issue-with-p...

I feel like taking offense at this is not worth it. If they sincerely believe they are saving souls, and you don't, then it shouldn't mean anything to you. Baptizing the dead seems silly and quaint, but Christians used to ask, how is it fair to send the unbaptized to hell that never had a chance to be saved? Mormons should get some credit for acknowledging the unfairness and coming up with a "solution". I think it's…

>I think it's a sad commentary on human nature that the Christian sects that don't believe anyone goes to hell at all are even more fringe and taken less seriously than Mormons.

One reason they might not be taken seriously is that in the Bible Jesus directly talks about people being in Hell.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#190

Post by ComodoHacker »

clusterfish wrote: post #133
mirimir wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. There's no practical way to protect our genomes in meatspace. We're constantly shedding DNA into the environment. Hair, skin, saliva, etc. For example, an adversary can just tail us to a coffee shop or restaurant, and take a utensil or straw or napkin that we've used. And then submit the sample using a fake name, as investigators often do. Edit: Those are excellent comments about scale. But generally,…

But you can't do that to a million people, only to individual targets. Economic scale matters in a lot of evil plots.

Just wait until these fancy "smart" coffee cups with built-in nano-labs become ubiquitous.
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