Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database • Hacker News Board

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#111

Post by leafboi » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 2:59 AM UTC

anitil wrote: post #81

leafboi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an ethics standpoint their's something to talk about here... From an individual standpoint I really don't care about someone out in the public knowing my genome. It's not like I store my passwords on my genome, how is this information going to be used against me?

One example might be the BRCA gene mutation. It gives you a higher chance of breast cancer and is typically associated with Ashkenazi Jews. I'm sure your insurer would be interested to know if you have it, and that potentially your children are at an elevated risk. Unfortunately there might be people interested in the ethnic association as well.

You got a point, but from a different angle is it ethical to hide your medical data from a company that may end up paying all your medical bills? It's almost like how people hide finances, you hide it because you want to do something unethical.

If I was jewish, I feel that right now I would just be slightly worried for myself. In general I wouldn't be too worried at all. I would, however, be more worried for my jewish kids, they may have to deal with that stuff in the future.

Although I would worry, I would question whether my worry is based on ethical grounds as that part is not clear.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#112

Post by all_blue_chucks » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:00 AM UTC

mauvehaus wrote: post #96

all_blue_chucks wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works in cybersecurity, it is perfectly clear to me that victims of attacks don't want to sound inept in their announcements so they ALWAYS say attacks are "sophisticated," "orchestrated," or "advanced." Nobody is going to say "we were hacked because we lack even basic security precautions." Instead, everything is an "APT."

Point of order: the victims of the attack are the million or so people reading about it in the news. The targets of the attack are doing their level best to control the narrative by spinning their attackers as extremely sophisticated so they don’t end up with a million or so people holding torches and pitchforks outside their offices.

Well, targets are also victims to some degree, but I get your gist. I would take it a step further: for identity theft the company that fails to verify your identity before reporting false info to a credit agency is at fault - for libel with damages. My SSN is not a form of authentication and using it as such should be a crime.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#113

Post by Trasmatta » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:00 AM UTC

SomewhatLikely wrote: post #78

js2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the core tenets of Mormon faith is that the dead can be baptized into the faith after their passing. Baptism of the dead evolved from the beliefs that baptism is necessary for salvation and that the family unit can continue to exist together beyond mortal life if all members are baptized. > Mormons trace their family trees to find the names of ancestors who died without learning about the restored Mormon Gos…

Why not just baptize every human then?

That's what they're trying to do. In Mormon theology everyone who dies without a chance to be baptized must be given a proxy baptism by someone living, so they have a chance to accept the gospel in the afterlife. The goal is that this will eventually happen for everyone who ever lived. (Source: former Mormon.)

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#114

Post by all_blue_chucks » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:02 AM UTC

cortic wrote: post #76

all_blue_chucks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the impact of having your DNA known? As far as I can tell the worst case scenarios are finding out you have to pay child support or getting placed at the scene of a crime. If those risks don't apply to you, who cares?

I was just wondering if this one leak would spur a hike in organ thefts. Or a spike in abusive husbands and fathers, pedophiles and rapists tracking down the victims that escaped them. Even if this doesn't happen, the future is a devious thing; I think we will eventually get to a stage of gene oppression; We have went through periods of oppressing and persecuting religion and ethnicity. DNA seems even more vulnerable…

Organ theft and the holocaust? If that's what you're worried about your problems are already much much much more severe than what we're discussing here.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#115

Post by pickledcods » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:04 AM UTC

This is the same level as having a breach of biometric data.

With password/payment/location breaches you have the ability to change what you entered as to invalidate/outdate the data which was stored.

Having your biometric/genome authentication data stolen or made public will be a nightmare.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#116

Post by site-packages1 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:05 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #34

philmcc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hunch is that if this information is used against you, you'd never know. First scenario that comes to mind: The insurance company that gives you an extremely high quote because you come back as "high risk" from a 3rd party company that they use to vet applications, and that 3rd party company uses your genetic predisposition for a condition.

This requires the insurance company to be doing something illegal and for it to really cause damage all their competitors have to be doing it as well. If this ever becomes widespread, it would be quickly obvious when a large number of ostensibly healthy people are given quotes that match their genetic profile but not their medical history. I'm just not sure that is a reasonable fear.

I think insurance companies aren't above doing anything illegal, especially if it can not insure you/drive you away with a high quote if it saves them many years and millions and millions of dollars covering someone's care for Huntington's or chemo for breast cancer or some other terrible disease for which someone is genetically predisposed.

The punishment for violations of the Genetic Information NonDiscrimination Act can be up to a million dollars in fines and some jail time. It is exceedingly rare for corporate officers to go to jail for acts of corporations, so likely violations would simply be fines. Cancer is expensive to cover (less so for insurance companies working with hospitals, much more for you and I), and the fines are relatively small, with the chance of jail time exceedingly small. I am unaware of anyone who has been prosecuted under this Act at all. I did a cursory search and didn't see anything.

The forgoing leads me to believe that like many crimes that have low rates of prosecution and relatively small fines, it would probably make sense for a corporate board (or series of employees acting under mutual light peer pressure) to use DNA information as an input into their actuarial tables.

Additionally, it would be difficult to spot clusters of people who are otherwise healthy with high insurance quotes. Even if you had the actual insurance quotes, getting peoples' medical information, especially in bulk, is extremely difficult because the aggregators of such information are typically bound by HIPAA.

All that to say, I think this is an extremely reasonable concerned and I would be shocked if companies didn't already use DNA information in some form, even if that form is as some input to a machine learning model, but I'll demurr on that subject because I know little about it.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#117

Post by holografix » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:08 AM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #17

markdown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought myheritage was owned by the Mormons.

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason for Mormons to especially care about their genealogy?

Probably a practical and financial reason such as the Catholic Church not allowing priests to marry and have children as a form of preventing priests passing on accumulated wealth or power to their offspring.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#118

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #62

slg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This requires the insurance company to be doing something illegal and for it to really cause damage all their competitors have to be doing it as well. If this ever becomes widespread, it would be quickly obvious when a large number of ostensibly healthy people are given quotes that match their genetic profile but not their medical history. I'm just not sure that is a reasonable fear.

I am also extremely dubious of this risk. At least in the US, a conspiracy of this sort would require hundreds of potentially-disgruntled employees to resist getting rich from whistleblower rewards.

Except these don’t regularly turn up fraud. Wells Fargo kept it going for years. Bernie Madoff kept it going for years.

People knew about both.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#119

Post by vmception » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:10 AM UTC

vimax wrote: post #7

vmception wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

surely enough of your cousins did that it doesn't matter

What a bullshit argument. Can't have complete security so might as well have no security. You're cousins genome, no matter how close, is not your genome. Why make it easier on those surveiling us?

I dont mean they should do it, I am saying their protest is in vain... because that is a factual reality.

The security ship has sailed, this is the Black Mirror episode.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#120

Post by coronadisaster » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 3:10 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #34

philmcc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hunch is that if this information is used against you, you'd never know. First scenario that comes to mind: The insurance company that gives you an extremely high quote because you come back as "high risk" from a 3rd party company that they use to vet applications, and that 3rd party company uses your genetic predisposition for a condition.

This requires the insurance company to be doing something illegal and for it to really cause damage all their competitors have to be doing it as well. If this ever becomes widespread, it would be quickly obvious when a large number of ostensibly healthy people are given quotes that match their genetic profile but not their medical history. I'm just not sure that is a reasonable fear.

It doesnt require them to do anything illegal... Pretty sure that they can already buy that information