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Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

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Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#101

Post by all_blue_chucks »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #85
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the impact of having your DNA known? As far as I can tell the worst case scenarios are finding out you have to pay child support or getting placed at the scene of a crime. If those risks don't apply to you, who cares?

> If those risks don't apply to you, who cares? Others have mentioned that that's a bad argument, so I won't rehash that. > getting placed at the scene of a crime That's a pretty damn bad "worst case scenario", but here's a few I'm going to toss out without too much thought: 1. Health insurance companies can deny you coverage. In America, that can be a literal death sentence. (Yes, GINA 2008 was passed, no, I don't w…

I'm not seeing anything compelling in any of your 5 points.

0. You are arguing that people who aren't subject to a specific risk should be worrying about being subject to that risk. That is a bad argument. So bad it feels absurd to have to type it out to you.

1. The law could change in the future? OK... Laws could change in an infinite number of ways. I can't mitigate an infinite number of risks.

2. If you visit a country where this is a risk to you, then avoid the risk. Nobody said otherwise. It is dishonest to argue with strawmen.

3. There are many easy ways to find someone's relatives. DNA does not change this situation in a material way.

4. Yes, I agree that you cannot predict the future. But much of your argument is based on the assumption that you can do so.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#102

Post by brigandish »

slg wrote: post #49
bagacrap wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this presentation outlines the kind of terrible attacks that could be based on your DNA in the near future https://youtu.be/HKQDSgBHPfY tldr, CRISPR allows targeting bioweapons at specific individuals.

Thanks for the link to that video. I don't have the time to watch it now, but I will come back to it later. Although on the surface, specifically targeted bio-engineered weapons seems like a silly fear for most us when bullets are so cheap. If someone wants me dead, I don't think any difficulty accessing my genome is going to be what stops them.

The choice of murder weapon obviously has more to it than whether bullets are available. The US has the most guns amongst its citizenry than any other on the planet yet a large percentage of homicides there are stabbings.

Availability, ease of use, likelihood of success/failure, and ability to be detected prior to and hence defended from, and for it to be detected after the act (who wants to be caught?) would all be considerations that may make it far more viable and attractive as a method, let alone the cost - bullets may be cheap but guns aren't.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#103

Post by ddod »

thephyber wrote: post #22

As someone who works in cybersecurity, it's always hard for me to interpret PR language like "orchestrated through a sophisticated attack". This could be aimed towards non-savvy readers meaning basically anything or it could be accurate and describe a nation-state (although I don't get the feeling of a sophisticated nation-state actor here). The DoJ used similar wording when prosecuting Aaron Schwartz for using Pytho…

Speaking of misleading cybersecurity language, note how you used the term "nation-state", which is a word that indicates a specific subset of countries and is not just a fancy synonym for "country".

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#104

Post by all_blue_chucks »

daveevad wrote: post #95
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I openly talk about my finances with anyone who wants to talk personal finance. What threat are you imagining this could pose?

let's start with your bank account and routing numbers.

I share that information when it benefits me. That's the basis of ACH. Next?

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#105

Post by philsnow »

FreeTrade wrote: post #46
kbenson wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including an option to destroy your saliva sample Until I read that sentence, it honestly never occurred to me they would keep that around. The data, sure. Biological samples? I just assumed they would be disposed of after use.

Collect it all.

No reason to discard it, better sequencers are always around the corner

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#106

Post by all_blue_chucks »

nickff wrote: post #64
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the impact of having your DNA known? As far as I can tell the worst case scenarios are finding out you have to pay child support or getting placed at the scene of a crime. If those risks don't apply to you, who cares?

This is a variant of “the honest have nothing to hide” argument, which is just wrong.

No, it is not. That argument is about what should be legal. We are discussing what is personally risky. These are completely different concepts.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#107

Post by mirimir »

jrumbut wrote: post #58
loughnane wrote: post #3

This is why I’ve been putting off getting my genome sequenced. One breach and it’s out there forever. I’ve heard good things about nebula[0] as a way to get an anonymous genome but have yet to be motivated enough to take the plunge [0] https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing/

Regardless of their policies, they still want to store it themselves and put it on the Internet. I am hoping that someday there will be a sequencing company that will mail me a drive containing the only copy and destroy the sample. I'm not worried about a sophisticated attack on my individual sequence but I suspect most of these services are or will be targeted by advanced and persistent attackers. Call me paranoid b…

I wonder if there's some way to do testing on a walk-in basis, in a way that would allow transparency re the lack of sample and data retention.

So a customer walks in, provides a sample, and walks out with data on a thumb drive. And perhaps also with the module that was used for the analysis.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#108

Post by all_blue_chucks »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #67
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the impact of having your DNA known? As far as I can tell the worst case scenarios are finding out you have to pay child support or getting placed at the scene of a crime. If those risks don't apply to you, who cares?

What are the benefits of you knowing? Seems like the only reason is mild curiosity.

The benefits of personal DNA tests are learning about your health and your genealogy.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#109

Post by kilo_bravo_3 »

slg wrote: post #27

Can someone explain the potential short to medium term fears of one's DNA leaking? My initial assumption is that it would be less of a problem compared to nearly any other personal data leaking. Like it certainly sounds creepy, but credit card or other financial data being stolen presents a huge headache and creates a lot of work. I understand that in specific instances, for example when paternity is in question or i…

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

The DNA records aren't the type that can be used to clone you, or frame you with some kind of non-existent DNA copying machine.

They are autosomal records. (or similar genealogical, or non-medical, types)

The people spinning fantastic fairytales about how the jackbooted thug of big brother is going to crush your throat probably don't even know what autosomal means and no amount of eduction will convince them.

I encourage everyone to submit their Autosomal DNA to public databases. You may bring closure to someone who has been or known a victim of a horrific crime and there is no risk to you.

You have at least one reply about insurance companies using this information to screw you.

1. This type of information is practically useless, actuarially, and

2. It has been illegal for them to do so for many years.

Re: Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a major genealogy database

#110

Post by mLuby »

slg wrote: post #27

Can someone explain the potential short to medium term fears of one's DNA leaking? My initial assumption is that it would be less of a problem compared to nearly any other personal data leaking. Like it certainly sounds creepy, but credit card or other financial data being stolen presents a huge headache and creates a lot of work. I understand that in specific instances, for example when paternity is in question or i…

Well, as a non-criminal thinking about it for a few seconds, various types of blackmail come to mind:

- you are the biological parent of this person who's looking for you, and if you want to stay anonymous…

- your husband isn't the father of his children, and if you don't want him to find out… (follow-up: both parents know but don't want the kids to.)

- you've been living under someone else's identity or a fake name…

- your ancestor was a slave-owner or Nazi or something and if you don't want the people you care about to know…

- your sibling isn't actually a blood relative, and so now the inheritance is in question…

These are all probably extremely rare cases, and were likely already known before or immediately after the test, but it's cheap to spam out the emails to see who's still trying to hide it. In a large enough population, it's still a worthwhile criminal enterprise. And their rarity makes them all the more vulnerable to blackmail. Where before it would have taken real legwork to find them, now it's just some data processing and emailing.

A similar concept is like those annoying ads for semi-legal websites where you can look up someone's criminal history, there could be a similar thing to look up someone's biological records. There might be a dating app in there too: filter for infertility or rare diseases?

There are plenty of other things, from the mundane to the exotic:

- having your medical care made more expensive or being denied insurance.

- being wrongly accused (and even convicted) because crime scene DNA was close to yours or a relative's.

- hiring based on genetic factors as in Gattaca.

- individually targeted attacks like the peach allergy from Parasite.

And again, that's off the top of my head; criminals are much more creative.

The key point that makes DNA (and other biometrics) even worse of a breach than credit cards or bank statements is it cannot be "reset."

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