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The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

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Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#31

Post by untog »

CM30 wrote: post #25

It's probably a bit controversial to say this, but haven't large sites had to deal with these problems for years by the time the likes of Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/Instagram/whatever came around? It's obviously horrible doing this as a job and it's obviously a bit more common on Facebook than say, a large old school internet forum, but... at least in this case people are paid to do this. Reddit mods and old school for…

I think it's fair to say the sheer quantity has changed since Facebook first came around (FB predates smartphones for one!)

I also think part of the objection here is around off-shoring. It's similar to other complaints about off-shored jobs: we're farming out unpleasant work to people that get paid less and have much less support (e.g. mental health).

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#32

Post by MattGaiser »

ceejayoz wrote: post #27
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as they have a pulse and can sit in the chair long enough to do the job they'll likely be fine. Content moderation farms, call centers and the like tend to optimize their internal processes such that they don't need to restrict their hiring to "professional and healthy people". There are plenty of people who are insane and unhealthy that can hack this sort of work.

Do you want "insane and unhealthy" people who voluntarily look at horrifying stuff deciding whether that stuff should be allowed on the platform, though? It'd be like having a jury pool made up of serial killers.

Why not? They don't benefit from it being public. They do benefit from not being fired and presumably there would be audits.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#33

Post by rosywoozlechan »

pantaloony wrote: post #19

Radical idea: if your service requires subjecting lots and lots of workers to scarring images, the correct solution is for that service not to exist. Facebook doesn’t have to let people post material to their site with very low barriers to entry. Granted they have to if they want to continue to be what they are and to make tons of money... but maybe they shouldn’t continue to be what they are and make tons of money i…

Any place anyone can add any user content has this problem. Anything with an input box and a file upload would qualify as your not existing solution.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#34

Post by op03 »

Given auto translate works reasonably well these days, how much commonality does Negative Content over different regions and languages have?

Anyone know? Is it like 10%? 80%?

There must be, by now, a whole lot of data on whats getting flagged region/language wise.

Maybe we need a Cloudflare for Content.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#35

Post by untog »

MattGaiser wrote: post #3

They should recruit people on Reddit for this. A large number of them seem perfectly fine with this type of content. There are dedicated communities to all these things. I do not mean this as a hit against Reddit users. It is just that there are small pockets of people who are psychologically capable of tolerating this or even enjoy it. It seems more ethical to hire people from /r/watchpeopledie.

> It is just that there are small pockets of people who are psychologically capable of tolerating this or even enjoy it.

I wouldn't assume "watches this stuff" and "is psychologically capable of tolerating this stuff" are one and the same. Those people might be actively harming themselves by watching the content. That's one thing when they're volunteering to do so (though that's an interesting conversation in and of itself) but it's quite another when Facebook is paying them to do it.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#36

Post by blargmaster33 »

praveen9920 wrote: post #9

The issue is as real as western countries dumping garbage in eastern countries just because they can pay them off. The local governments won't acknowledge this as problem because of the money flowing in and a lot of people's livelihood is dependent on this. But we should call it what it is, exploitation.

No, western countries are NOT dumping garbage. They are buying the service "waste disposal", they are NOT responsible for the supplier of that service just dumping the garage.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#37

Post by wheelie_boy »

tmpz22 wrote: post #28
CM30 wrote: post #25

It's probably a bit controversial to say this, but haven't large sites had to deal with these problems for years by the time the likes of Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/Instagram/whatever came around? It's obviously horrible doing this as a job and it's obviously a bit more common on Facebook than say, a large old school internet forum, but... at least in this case people are paid to do this. Reddit mods and old school for…

Right but the difference is the sheer amount of money involved and the politicization that comes with that. If Facebook was worth 100m nobody would care. If facebook only has 10m users nobody would care. It's the scale that completely breaks the legal and political frameworks the our society leans on.

I'd say another difference is the percentage of your attention is being devoted to this kind of thing. Presumably reddit or phpbb mods aren't spending 40 hr/wk looking at gore.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#39

Post by quadrifoliate »

praveen9920 wrote: post #9

The issue is as real as western countries dumping garbage in eastern countries just because they can pay them off. The local governments won't acknowledge this as problem because of the money flowing in and a lot of people's livelihood is dependent on this. But we should call it what it is, exploitation.

I think in regards to India, the issue is a little more complex, and intertwined with social mores. This one sentence from the article is really important:

> According to Dr. K. Jyothirmayi, a Hyderabad-based psychiatrist, stigmas, such as the perceived impact of a mental health diagnosis on one’s marital prospects, often prevent young Indians from seeking treatment.

From growing up in India, my view is that meditation and the general state of the mind has been taken seriously for, well, centuries. But move the focus towards anything with 'psych' or 'mental' in the title and people in India will shy away from it even if it is affordable or free. "Seeing a mental health counselor" is a recipe for considerable social stigma in India [1], not an empowering practice like it's perceived as in the United States.

The solution to this is hard, and in my opinion not something that Facebook or their Indian subcontractors can accomplish.

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[1] I'm talking "All your relatives will refer to you as the crazy person" or "Your girlfriend's parents will call off the engagement" levels of stigma, not just "I don't feel comfortable talking about it in a bar" levels. Like a lot of other things, families with higher levels of income and education are sometimes an exception.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#40

Post by MattGaiser »

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #38

Post gore, rape and torture in places where people don't want to see that and you should lose the right to have internet access. Criminalize this behavior.

It is criminal, especially the child porn. But you have to catch them first.
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