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Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

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Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#171

Post by ghaff »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #107
game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

The problem with gap years is you loose an additional year of income at the college graduate level on the backend, that's a pretty big missed financial opportunity. With the economy in the state it's in now, it's unlikely most college students will be able to land decent paying jobs during a gap year, if they can find a job at all. Better to just finish the degree as quickly as possible and be ready to enter the work…

>The problem with gap years is you loose an additional year of income at the college graduate level on the backend, that's a pretty big missed financial opportunity.

I don't really disagree with your other points (though I might make a different decision). But I'm not sure I buy the argument that you should enter the workforce as young as you can profitably do so (considering net present value relative to educational level) and should never take extended time off between jobs.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#172

Post by Der_Einzige »

barry-cotter wrote: post #136
kmonsen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I lived in both ca and ny and the tax rate is pretty close to European ones. When I lived in Switzerland just the federal rate was higher than my Swiss tax rate. The big difference in total compensation after tax between Western Europe and USA is in the compensation part for people that are considered highly skilled. For example for me I get at least 2x here in CA compared to what I would get in Norway and Swi…

> Another difference there is that life in Europe is much nicer for the average middle class, but personally I think it’s nicer in the US for upper middle class, the top 10%. This is a gross underestimate. One can quibble about whether the top 40% or 80% of the US is richer/consumes more than in Europe but the idea it’s only true for the top 10% is delusional. Germany has a lower GDP per capita than every state bar M…

The gini coefficient of Germany means that the average citizen of Germany has likely more money and a higher standard of living than the average American. Germany has far fewer ultra-rich and ultra-poor people.

Gdp per capital is misleading without talking about measures of income inequality

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#173

Post by bmarquez »

x87678r wrote: post #114
kerkeslager wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can study without paying tens of thousands of dollars. There are also tons of productive uses of time that can be done during the pandemic. Now is a great time to volunteer.

Volunteer - unemployment is the worst for decades. There are literally half the population not working right now with nothing to do, its the least useful time to volunteer. (OK maybe I'm wrong)

It's because of this unemployment that food banks have an increased need for volunteers.

My local food bank certainly requests volunteers, and they're recommending that seniors or those with health conditions cancel their shifts...further reducing their volunteer pool.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#174

Post by astura »

game_the0ry wrote: post #142
wutbrodo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-directed study is challenging, especially for 17 year-olds that don't have anyone (eg parents) who are in tune enough with autodidactism to guide them. One of the biggest advantages of college for me was realizing how much there was to learn and how easy it was to do it (after skating through all of my schooling with straight As), and I only really refined my autodidactic abilities in my mid-20s.

> Self-directed study is challenging Fair point, but that's because students are not encouraged to learn what they are interested in.

Or they literally don't know how to learn what they are interested in?

I went into computer science as a major because I was interested in computers. College was literally the only way I was able to learn because I didn't know anything about getting started - I didn't know what a programming language was, for example, so I wouldn't know to learn to program.

I grew up poor and my public education was very substandard. College allowed me to get past that, I couldn't imagine trying to do it myself with literally zero guidance.

I know some of you are just so smart you don't need college - but please consider there's a vast about of us plebs that do.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#175

Post by ghaff »

anonAndOn wrote: post #165
x87678r wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on a gap year when you can backpack around the world. This is literally the worst time to have a gap year. If you're stuck at home you might as well study.

Backpacking doesn't have to mean exotic locales. There may be some bucket list activities that are closer to home, eg: Trans Canada Trail, Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, Camino de Santiago, etc.

I think there are still logistical challenges during the current situation although if you mean literal backpacking, that is mostly a reasonable option. (Which isn't what most people mean when they talk about "backpacking" across Europe.)

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#176

Post by fiftyfifty »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #115
fiftyfifty wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with gap years is you loose an additional year of income at the college graduate level on the backend, that's a pretty big missed financial opportunity. With the economy in the state it's in now, it's unlikely most college students will be able to land decent paying jobs during a gap year, if they can find a job at all. Better to just finish the degree as quickly as possible and be ready to enter the work…

If your point is that students shouldn't take a gap year just because its a year when they aren't getting paid, then I think you are missing the nonmonetary value (or value that is difficult to capture in monetary terms) of travel, volunteering, and the other things that people do during gap years that are much harder to replicate once you're out of school. (You're "waste of time" comment makes me thing that this is…

I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of gap years in general, but this year 2020-2021 seems particularly bad because it seems likely it will be an unproductive year for many so you might as well make some progress towards your degree.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#177

Post by remir »

kumarvvr wrote: post #119

Despite all the discussion about online classes, there is one fundamental aspect of online teaching, that isn't fully 'disrupted' Keeping students attention on the class. Technology may improve, economics may change, industries created and destroyed, but ultimately, if the students attention is not held, everything is lost. In today's world, it has become extremely difficult to even keep focus, with the myriad of dis…

I like this idea. These places could also have lab equipment, 3D printers, host device repair clinic, etc...

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#178

Post by bilbo0s »

anonAndOn wrote: post #165
x87678r wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on a gap year when you can backpack around the world. This is literally the worst time to have a gap year. If you're stuck at home you might as well study.

Backpacking doesn't have to mean exotic locales. There may be some bucket list activities that are closer to home, eg: Trans Canada Trail, Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, Camino de Santiago, etc.

"Trans Canada Trail"?

Can we get into Canada?

EDIT: I mean that I thought Canada won't allow entry to people from the US? Is that just a rumor?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#179

Post by bilbo0s »

astura wrote: post #162
kerkeslager wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can study without paying tens of thousands of dollars. There are also tons of productive uses of time that can be done during the pandemic. Now is a great time to volunteer.

Only you can afford to do something like that or are bankrolled by someone else. I couldn't afford being away from my only source of income at school (student loans) for a year when I was going to school, I would literally be homeless without it. Add on that it's very difficult to get a job to support yourself right now and full time students are not eligible for unemployment. That's not even considering the risks yo…

True. People who talk up the idea of taking a full year off and "volunteering" live in a much different economic reality than a lot of other people.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#180

Post by wan23 »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #107
game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

The problem with gap years is you loose an additional year of income at the college graduate level on the backend, that's a pretty big missed financial opportunity. With the economy in the state it's in now, it's unlikely most college students will be able to land decent paying jobs during a gap year, if they can find a job at all. Better to just finish the degree as quickly as possible and be ready to enter the work…

If taking a year off is a worthwhile thing to do in life, then right at the beginning of your working life is the best time to do it. That's when your value to employers is the lowest, as you don't have any experience yet. Each year that passes makes this sort of thing more expensive to the point where the idea of a 45 year old taking a year to go backpacking or whatever is considered to be very impractical.
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