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Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

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131–140 of 329 posts

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#131

I'd imagine the tuition should drop by about 30-50%, seeing as college costs are going to be dropping. I'm pretty sure in a skeptical sense they'll be trying to pay associate professors less for the same reason. and charging students more.

Did you mean to say adjunct professors?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#132

Despite all the discussion about online classes, there is one fundamental aspect of online teaching, that isn't fully 'disrupted' Keeping students attention on the class. Technology may improve, economics may change, industries created and destroyed, but ultimately, if the students attention is not held, everything is lost. In today's world, it has become extremely difficult to even keep focus, with the myriad of dis…

I think this stems from a general disinterest of the focus issue pertaining to technology at large. I work from home and have the exact same problem staying focused on work.

Phone operating systems still treat features like “zen mode” as second-class citizens while not providing enough granular access to third party apps to implement features that encourage putting down the phone successfully. There are still too many ways to work around these kinds of features and apps like Freedom for iOS do an OK but not great job at allowing you to restrict access to apps and sites on a schedule.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#133
What's the value of an online course? The market says $0. There are plenty of free, online courses. What is the value of an online degree? Well that depends who is awarding it, but that value is unrelated to the value of courses offered. It's the value of a status symbol. Attending online courses will make sense financially only if that status symbol is really amazing, given the current prices of even cheap public universities.

If I was a student, I'd do anything to take a year off. Even at high status schools, or perhaps especially at high status schools, missing out on the socialization and experience just to get status a year or two earlier is unlikely to pay off better.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#134

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

Higher education so far as I can tell now is indistinguishable from a cult. You have to pay homage to various absurd beliefs, contribute money to them, and worship the value of it no matter what the apparent merit of it is, and more than anything it has its heresies which appear to be self-directed development and independent thinking.

I'm not sure what supports some of these aggressive generalizations.

> You have to pay homage to various absurd beliefs

Really? Which ones? I don't recall having to "pay homage" to anything during my time in higher ed., must less any absurd beliefs. What do you have in mind here?

> You have to...contribute money to them

I do? I guess I paid tuition, if that's what you mean. But isn't it pretty normal for an institution to require some form of payment in exchange for services? And it wasn't all that much actually, because I was lucky to be able to attend a reasonably high-quality public university within my state. (Of course, one might object to the amount in particular cases.) And I haven't contributed any money since. Certainly nobody has tried to forced me to. in reality, all this amounts to is getting a few annoying emails.

> You have to...worship the value of it no matter what the apparent merit of it is

I don't think so. I don't worship the value of my diploma and never have. (Though I have found it very useful in certain endeavors.) The college police have never showed up at my door and ordered me to show more respect. In fact, my own perception is that skepticism of the value of higher ed. (beyond its credentialing function and possibly its ability ro embed students in certain social networks) is a very fashionable view right now.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#135

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

Except "embracing" is definitely not the right word. Very few professors I know are happy about this whole situation. Universities are begrudgingly accepting the fact that they can't have in-person classes, so they have to turn to online alternatives. Tuition can't be changed because the few costs that are being saved (facilities still need maintenance) are offset by the massive losses in revenue from student housing…

> Except "embracing" is definitely not the right word.

Fair point.

Still, students are not getting what they are paying for and colleges will not be able to adequately justify the same cost to students, whatever their fixed operating expenses may be, especially since students do not benefit from those expenses.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#136
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, half your paycheck goes to the government and European tech salaries are nearly half that of the US. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

I mean I lived in both ca and ny and the tax rate is pretty close to European ones. When I lived in Switzerland just the federal rate was higher than my Swiss tax rate. The big difference in total compensation after tax between Western Europe and USA is in the compensation part for people that are considered highly skilled. For example for me I get at least 2x here in CA compared to what I would get in Norway and Swi…

> Another difference there is that life in Europe is much nicer for the average middle class, but personally I think it’s nicer in the US for upper middle class, the top 10%.

This is a gross underestimate. One can quibble about whether the top 40% or 80% of the US is richer/consumes more than in Europe but the idea it’s only true for the top 10% is delusional. Germany has a lower GDP per capita than every state bar Mississippi. The US has a higher average household income than everywhere but Hong and much larger households. The US is just richer than any remotely comparable country. The countries that look similar on GDP per capita, like Norway, consume a great deal less.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#137

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

> Now they are singing a different tune once they don't have a choice

They are happy to sing when they get paid the same amount.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#138
post #42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you work but no one where I work considers the current situation fine. It's workable but it's definitely no where near 100%.

I like it because it disadvantages the politically competent types while advantaging the technically competent types. Guess which category I fall into.

As someone who studiously avoided office politics on principle (to my detriment) until my latest company (where politics is crucial), I've observed the opposite. Information flow is a lot harder and less visible now, which makes politics even more important for making sure the right people hear the things you want them to.

It's true that certain types of politicking are harder now, since you can't charm people in the kitchenette or over lunch. But setting meetings and making promises and aligning others' incentives in a way that benefits you is a lot easier in an environment that cuts the non-politicker off from, eg, seeing people walk out of a meeting room and checking their calendars to see what they were meeting about.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#139
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on a gap year when you can backpack around the world. This is literally the worst time to have a gap year. If you're stuck at home you might as well study.

> If you're stuck at home you might as well study. Exactly. It's a good opportunity for self directed study. I would spend time doing something productive, not traveling.

Traveling can be incredibly productive; they aren’t mutually exclusive.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can study without paying tens of thousands of dollars. There are also tons of productive uses of time that can be done during the pandemic. Now is a great time to volunteer.

Volunteer - unemployment is the worst for decades. There are literally half the population not working right now with nothing to do, its the least useful time to volunteer. (OK maybe I'm wrong)

Just because (some) employers are able to pay as many employees (possibly zero) as before, doesn't mean there are no jobs to be done. With so many social issues currently highlighted, it seems like an excellent time to give some time.
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