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Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

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Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#91

Post by cameronbrown »

nickik wrote: post #58

Collage in general has never been about education. Collage is about getting a stamp on your head saying that you have been to collage. Meaning that you spend years learning a bunch of stuff and you didn't do stop shit to kicked out. I guess for engineering where there is significant equipment necessary this doesn't hold. But the majority of collage is pointless, all the knowledge you need is available outside of coll…

Yep. They have a monopoly on the verification of knowledge and not knowledge itself. That's why brand names are so valued.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#92

Post by game_the0ry »

User23 wrote: post #42
ck425 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you work but no one where I work considers the current situation fine. It's workable but it's definitely no where near 100%.

I like it because it disadvantages the politically competent types while advantaging the technically competent types. Guess which category I fall into.

Interesting. This makes a lot of sense, anecdotally.

I am a tech worker in a highly bureaucratic and "political" type of company (finance). No wonder the "management" has been pushing the return to office so hard - they need the "face time" with their bosses.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#93

Post by HeroOfAges »

zests wrote: post #64
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher education so far as I can tell now is indistinguishable from a cult. You have to pay homage to various absurd beliefs, contribute money to them, and worship the value of it no matter what the apparent merit of it is, and more than anything it has its heresies which appear to be self-directed development and independent thinking.

What massive group of people is not indistinguishable from a cult? A book exists that argues that all mass movements (religion, cults, political parties) have very similar characteristics and can be analyzed with the same lens. I have no doubt that "supporters of X" can also be put in the same group where in this case X = higher education. I've never read this book but it was published several decades ago and I agree…

The book you might be referring to is "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. Published in 1951. It's about 175 pages. If you've ever wondered why political correctness, BLM and anti-racism resemble a religion (non-theistic) it is definitely worth a read.

*edit

I would have liked to remove the part about political correctness, BLM and anti-racism as it does nothing to contribute to the discussion and the question can be answered without a reference to any of those things. I will not, because to do so feels misleading.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#94

Post by stainforth »

harias wrote: post #46
motohagiography wrote: post #43

Depends on what you think of the value of school is. Given the distribution of outcomes and skills, the effect of a degree for the vast majority in the long tail of graduates is just tribal affiliation with the people who achieve in the upper percentiles. For most people, simply paying for the credential without attending classes would deliver most of the value. Traditionally, this was known as "purchasing a commissi…

Called signalling in economics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)

Interesting, can this be merged in some way with the concept of signs in postmodernism a la Baudrillard? It would be an interesting marriage

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#95

Post by mixedCase »

nondave wrote: post #62
User23 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it because it disadvantages the politically competent types while advantaging the technically competent types. Guess which category I fall into.

There can be disadvantages for technically competent folks too. I'm really missing going over technical ideas on a whiteboard with colleagues.

There are a variety of online whiteboards. Miro is one the company I work at uses.

There's a valid argument in the annoyance of audio latency for this making it not as efficient as physical presence but it's still a very workable solution and gets most of the way there.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#96

Post by stainforth »

kmonsen wrote: post #71
cpursley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, half your paycheck goes to the government and European tech salaries are nearly half that of the US. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

I mean I lived in both ca and ny and the tax rate is pretty close to European ones. When I lived in Switzerland just the federal rate was higher than my Swiss tax rate. The big difference in total compensation after tax between Western Europe and USA is in the compensation part for people that are considered highly skilled. For example for me I get at least 2x here in CA compared to what I would get in Norway and Swi…

Should that quality be maintained for the top 10%?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#97

Post by criddell »

motohagiography wrote: post #43

Depends on what you think of the value of school is. Given the distribution of outcomes and skills, the effect of a degree for the vast majority in the long tail of graduates is just tribal affiliation with the people who achieve in the upper percentiles. For most people, simply paying for the credential without attending classes would deliver most of the value. Traditionally, this was known as "purchasing a commissi…

What are you talking about when looking at the distribution of outcomes? What are the outcomes?

The value of school for me was (in no particular order) learning how to learn, how to tackle large projects with difficult questions, how to work with other people, how to manage my time doing all of that, building a network of both people in my area and outside of my area, smoothly transitioning from childhood to adulthood, having freedom to explore and discover the things that truly interested me, and having a really good time doing all of that.

A huge part of the value of school came from staying on-campus in student dorms my first two years. Living with a large group of people expanded and enriched my social life tremendously. I loved being so close to the school and libraries and all the facilities. Its hard to know for sure but the social skills I gained are probably as valuable as the computer science education in creating the life I have now.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#99

Post by Wistar »

HeroOfAges wrote: post #93
zests wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What massive group of people is not indistinguishable from a cult? A book exists that argues that all mass movements (religion, cults, political parties) have very similar characteristics and can be analyzed with the same lens. I have no doubt that "supporters of X" can also be put in the same group where in this case X = higher education. I've never read this book but it was published several decades ago and I agree…

The book you might be referring to is "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. Published in 1951. It's about 175 pages. If you've ever wondered why political correctness, BLM and anti-racism resemble a religion (non-theistic) it is definitely worth a read. *edit I would have liked to remove the part about political correctness, BLM and anti-racism as it does nothing to contribute to the discussion and the question can be…

Hoffer certainly led an unusual life.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hoffer

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#100

Post by kerkeslager »

b5n wrote: post #70
game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

I'd think strategically about a gap year. If you're a great student with excellent college prospects a gap year might make sense, admissions are going to be very competitive for 21/22. If you're not the best student it might make sense to try and get accepted for 20/21 due to smaller field of applicants.

That applies to inbound freshman, but for students going into their sophomore-to-senior years, who are already accepted, taking a year off seems like a no-brainer.
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