Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition • Hacker News Board

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#71

Post by kmonsen » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #51

f6v wrote: post #40

And here I am in Belgium, paying 2000 a year for a Masters degree.

Also, half your paycheck goes to the government and European tech salaries are nearly half that of the US. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

I mean I lived in both ca and ny and the tax rate is pretty close to European ones. When I lived in Switzerland just the federal rate was higher than my Swiss tax rate.

The big difference in total compensation after tax between Western Europe and USA is in the compensation part for people that are considered highly skilled. For example for me I get at least 2x here in CA compared to what I would get in Norway and Switzerland. In the UK and Germany the difference is even larger.

For people that are not highly skilled it is the other way round, they would earn significantly more in Europe. Another difference there is that life in Europe is much nicer for the average middle class, but personally I think it’s nicer in the US for upper middle class, the top 10%.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#72

Post by eugenekolo » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #51

f6v wrote: post #40

And here I am in Belgium, paying 2000 a year for a Masters degree.

Also, half your paycheck goes to the government and European tech salaries are nearly half that of the US. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

There are countries that are better to work in than others though, e.g., Switzerland salaries are near US with significantly better benefits. US is in the top 10 though.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#73

Post by xigency » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

1) College itself is not worth the cost of full tuition. College tuition costs have increased above the inflation rate for decades to become enormous.

2) Online education can be equal to in-person education and is worth the same cost as in-person education. The overall college experience is subjective, but you can learn everything you need to from reading a textbook and completing assignments and taking tests, all of which are the same in an online setting.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#74

Post by pmyteh » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

teslademigod1 wrote: post #2

I'd imagine the tuition should drop by about 30-50%, seeing as college costs are going to be dropping. I'm pretty sure in a skeptical sense they'll be trying to pay associate professors less for the same reason. and charging students more.

Bluntly, college costs are not going to be dropping, at least this year. Universities still have the buildings, the infrastructure, and the staff that they bought to deliver in-person classes. That those staff are now having to do more work to put together online curriculums, and the admin are having to arrange extra technology for online classes makes it more expensive, not less.

A college set up as a distance-learning establishment is in a different place - and there are some of those. But the costs of running a university don't suddenly vanish just because the students do. And as everyone expects/hopes in-person teaching to be back next year, I don't see many institutions deciding to go online-only as a business model, either.

(FWIW the associate professors will be fine: they're mostly tenured. It's the adjuncts which are going to be shafted, together with the people who were hoping to get tenure-track positions in what is now a decimated job market).

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#75

Post by augustt » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #58

Collage in general has never been about education. Collage is about getting a stamp on your head saying that you have been to collage. Meaning that you spend years learning a bunch of stuff and you didn't do stop shit to kicked out. I guess for engineering where there is significant equipment necessary this doesn't hold. But the majority of collage is pointless, all the knowledge you need is available outside of coll…

Well at the very least you'll learn how college is spelled.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#76

Post by HarryHirsch » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

abvdasker wrote: post #69

I agree. For some degrees it's less of an issue but for areas of study like chemistry, biology, physics and many others, access to the college's physical resources like laboratories is part of what you're paying for. I don't know how you solve this problem with the current constraints imposed by COVID-19, but you can't expect these students to pay full-price for an inferior education.

You won't find anyone willing to teach several sections a day in a teaching laboratory with 24 students, the risk of infection is (correctly) perceived as too high. The market has adapted, there are kits to do experiments at home.

Research labs are much less densely packed, and in-person interaction is less. In less affected states lab-based research is starting again.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#77

Post by x87678r » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

Go on a gap year when you can backpack around the world. This is literally the worst time to have a gap year. If you're stuck at home you might as well study.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#78

Post by humanistbot » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

Except "embracing" is definitely not the right word. Very few professors I know are happy about this whole situation. Universities are begrudgingly accepting the fact that they can't have in-person classes, so they have to turn to online alternatives. Tuition can't be changed because the few costs that are being saved (facilities still need maintenance) are offset by the massive losses in revenue from student housing and the added costs in prepping online classes. Very few professors are thinking that they're delivering the same quality of education online, even though they're having to work even more to create and deliver an online alternative from scratch, plus having to teach themselves video production skills.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#79

Post by mcny » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

nondave wrote: post #62

User23 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it because it disadvantages the politically competent types while advantaging the technically competent types. Guess which category I fall into.

There can be disadvantages for technically competent folks too. I'm really missing going over technical ideas on a whiteboard with colleagues.

And you can't do that remotely because we don't have a decent network connection?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#80

Post by willismonroe » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

I think you might be conflating two camps of academics. There have been folks for a while now who were vehemently against online education, and there are also those pushing digital pedagogy forward. The former were stuck in a rut when classes moved online this spring, and the latter were there to pick up the slack and start organizing workshops and trying to make all university teaching better online.